Distances and your personal log

[damo]

So how do you calculate the distance you have sailed?
eg for the purposes of an RYA qualification; the running total you may put in your personal log etc.

On a passage do you log A to B on the chart, the distance travelled over the ground (GPS trip), distance through the water (log trip), some other combination?

In my case it is a modest total, but how I add it up would make a huge difference. For example, the return passage to Lundy is 150 nm, but I may have actually sailed more than 200 nm to get there and back. So what would you record in your sailing diary?

 

[iangrant]

Probably best to record the distance on your "water log" 'cause that is the distance you sailed. Trips aren't always A to B you may just be out sailing - record that as well!

cheers good luck

Ian

 

[Malcb]

I always record the distance over the ground from my GPS/Chartplotter, as that is the distance I have sailed, rather than the quanity of water that has flowed past the log.

Although, prior to GPS, I always used the figure off the log, as that was all I had.

 

[stevebrassett]

Depends on if the log was working, and whether I bothered to power up the GPS. I use all three measurements, and record which one it is. Given the choice, I use the GPS, as this records the distance I covered.

 

[john_morris_uk]

May I suggest that you record the distance the distance shown on your boat's log. The purpose of the miles logged for your RYA qualification is to give some reasonable assessment of your experience. Although its not a perfect measure, its probably the best that can be done.

As far as logging 'extra miles' through beating across the channel etc, don't worry about it. No doubt you will spend time 'losing miles' by planning your passages to go with the tidal stream, and it all evens up in the end. No-one is going to die in a ditch over the odd mile or two gained or lost.

I will put in a plea not to use miles off the GPS. We rarely sail the exact line between ports, and its not a good measure of your experience gained. The experience I gained and the lessons I learned through logging a lot of miles whilst getting the tide wrong of Hartland point years ago comes to mind. It was only as few miles added to my log, but I learned a lot about getting tides right!

 

[graham]

Personally i would take great care to be accurate about mileage of passages.Just put in the A to B distance.

Your Examiner is likely to be an experienced local man who knows exactly how far A to b is and it may start the exam off on the wrong foot if he thinks your mileages are stretched a bit.

If your distances are a bit light do some crewing such as on the Cherbourg trip or similar.

My boats going back in tommorow so will be a to b ing again soon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Aardee]

I see your point, but most Solent types have dozens of Hamble - Cowes passages, some taking all day via the most circuitous routes, just for the pleasure of sailing. It's all still valid mileage...

If we all used strict A-B distances, Dame Ellen would have covered 0nm in breaking the RTW record.

We're also going back in tomorrow - fingers crossed for a decent day!!

 

[Malcb]

[ QUOTE ]
We rarely sail the exact line between ports

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. My chart plotter does not record the exact line between ports, it records my meandering, intentional or otherwise, course over the ground and therefore is more accurate than the log.

 

[webcraft]

If you need to 'stretch' your distances to be eligible for an RYA qualification then IMHO you should not be doing it - the time and distance requirements are not exactly onerous, and many think they should be raised.

Having said that I can't imagine any examiner failing you because he thought your 2,600 miles (eg, for YM) was actually 2,400 miles. If he failed you it would be because you weren't up to the standard.


- Nick

 

[john_morris_uk]

I think you hit the nail on the head. I always start exams by chatting about people's boating experiences and background. Its a way of checking whether their claimed miles make any sense in the real world. At the end of the day, people can claim miles that don't exist, and one has no way of disproving their claims except by assessing their performance on the water.

Some people have lots of miles, but little experience.

Some people have fewer miles and lots of experience.

I once took a young person on an ocean passage of over 3500 miles. They had never sailed before and despite the impressive mileage that they logged were still relatively inexperienced at the end. (They'd never been in a Marina. had anchored only twice, hadn't seen much shipping, but had a lot of hours of steering, reefing, shaking out reefs etc by day and night.)

nuff said?

 

[Wansworth]

Could an Examinar judge a candidate just on the way they did things on and off the boatand assess himmbefore even setting sail?

 

[snowleopard]

When working out 'day's run', I use the trip mileage on the GPS which is the actual distance covered over the ground and is very accurate. The log distance is (a) not very accurate (a bit of fouling and it often under-reads by as much as 25%) and (b) is affected by currents: in the tradces for example you can see 15 miles a day less on the log because of current.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I am not sure what you are asking. I suppose that I might argue that candidates are judged at all times.

Part of my duties are to assess whether the candidate has the met the relevant criteria to undertake the exam that they have applied for. I was trying to be honest about the process. One has to come to a judgement about whether a person is telling the truth. In the end it all comes out in the wash when the candidate takes charge on the water.

 

[Wansworth]

I was relating it in away to the driving test,the examiner sits in the back of the car and notes if the driver has adjusted his mirrors or not ,has a look round befor driving off etc.but as you say candidates are judged at all times.Jusif a candidate deemed the conditions for sailing wherebeyond his abilities and he considerit prudent to wait,what would be an examinas reaction?

 

[RupertW]

One thing that impressed me when I took my YM exam was the pragmatism of the examiner.

The judgements seemed to come from chatting about experiences as well as observing me in action and things went best when I said things like, "I know you've asked me to do a passage plan from Alderney to Bealieau but I'd pop into Lymington first for breakfast,then hop around after a bit of a kip while the tide is still fine."

The best piece of advice I got was to go through the practiced set pieces as taught but otherwise skipper the way I'd normally do. Either I'd pass or be pushed into finding out where my yawning gaps were. Both happened.

 

[ajt]

I think you shold record the boats otherwise if you go out for a sail one day then return to your own mooring you have travelled from A-A so no miles

 

[RupertW]

It wasn't too hard a choice for me as my sailing used to be out on Saturday, overnight, then back, or the annual cruise. A-B did the job and I took my YM so late on that the number of miles wasn't really an issue.

My issue around mileage is the skippering requirements which are often misleading and IMHO close to fraudulent for those who are simply taught to sail without gaining their own experience. To me you aren't skippering when you know you have an instructor on board who can override any foolish decision you make. That's good and useful practice for learning how to skipper but "skipper" miles logged in those circumstances are a total nonsense.

 

[old_salt]

Here is a scan of page p9 of my G15 log book.

Quote:-
PERSONAL LOG OF CRUISES (RACES)

For the Log on the following pages to be of value it must be filled in accurately and comprehensively. The columns have particular significance in relation to the experience required before examination for certificates of competence. The following notes give guidance on the information to be included.

Column 3. Days on Board
A day on board is a period of 24 consecutive hours living on board the vessel. Periods of less than 24 hours may not be aggregated to increase the total but a day is not invalidated by leaving the yacht for a few hours during a cruise.

Column 4. Distance logged
This is the distance sailed (by the log), in tidal waters, in the open sea, outside natural or artificial harbours in which it would be possible to secure or anchor for a prolonged period.

Column 5. Night hours
This is hours on watch between sunset and sunrise.

Column 6. Details of voyage
This column should include ports visited and rhumb line distances of passages over 60 miles required to qualify for examination for the Yachtmaster Offshore Certificate. It is most important that it also includes a record of the capacity in which the cruise was made (e.g. crew member, mate of watch, skipper. etc.).

Column 7. Signature of skipper
It is permissible for the holder of the log to sign himself for cruises during which he was skipper of the yacht.
un Quote

From this I assume it referred to old fashioned nav work. Paper charts, streamed log etc.
Not with modern ade's and electronic gizmo's etc.

 

[damo]

Interesting responses, and the usual different practices from everyone /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

So it is rhumb line diffs that are required for YM Offshore, and the requirements for recording "days" and "night hours" is also something I was wondering about.

I am not considering a sailing qual but was more curious about how people recorded their distances.
I feel that I am pragmatic about it, so for shortish familiar distances I will record the distance sailed it usually takes, while for longer passages I use the gps trip distance. This is important to me because I am still building up experience of average speeds in different conditions, for future passage planning, so I need to know distance travelled and time taken.

But more generally I would like to know did I sail eg 2000 nm last summer, or 1750, or 2300 etc.

 

[Plomong]

Damo, On my logbook, right next to the Time column, comes a Log Reading column. The bottom figure on that column for any trip is the distance travelled, usually taken from the water log, not the GPS.

Otherwise a trip from A to A lasting 8 hours would just count as 0 miles.

However, as Old_Salt pointed out, the RYA examiner will also want to know what longer trips, with the specified minimum length, you have made. Here you should give the A to B rhumb line distance, as required.

As for exams, you are lucky in the UK to not have compulsory examinations and qualifications. Here in Spain you must have the relevant official qualification in order to skipper a boat over 6m LOA. The requirements for all but the basic PER ticket include sea time, usually obtained by attending a practical course run by an approved sea school. What they actually teach, in my experience, is nothing. Not a bit like the RYA voluntary scheme, which I have also experienced, where the instructor really went about polishing the skills of his students and the examiner then evaluated the real seamanship and skippering aptitudes and abilities of the candidates. Don't ever let any bureaucrat destroy that by imposing compulsory tickets and schooling of the kind in force over here.

As for sea miles, maybe 3000 of my total 12000 logged were just out round the next headland and back. But on many of those trips I have checked out some aspect of sailing, maybe some question of sail trim, the boats reactions to rougher conditions, etc. Those are just as real sea miles, and probably more educational, than a 200 mile summer cruise with the family, with the Azores high pressure system in full force and almost guaranteed sea breeze conditions each day. Which would you say is more relevant to an RYA examiner???

What the examiner evaluates is your ability to handle the boat under a range of circumstances, your confidence, your interactions with the crew, etc. All very relevant items. If you measure up, you get the qualification. And thats it. Miles? They are only an indicator that you are not just in off the street, as they say.