Displaying licence

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Cashbuyer

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Where do you display your licence? Has anybody had it half inched by fixing in cockpit, where anyone can get access? Used to put mine inside by lower helm, but with tinted windows it was tricky to spot. Was I being over cautious or is it ok and safe enough to display in cockpit?
It's now 2014. Why can't this be paperless? Funding I suppose...
 
Cashbuyer said:
Where do you display your licence? Has anybody had it half inched by fixing in cockpit, where anyone can get access? Used to put mine inside by lower helm, but with tinted windows it was tricky to spot. Was I being over cautious or is it ok and safe enough to display in cockpit?
It's now 2014. Why can't this be paperless? Funding I suppose...
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Whilst it does not get around the "Failure to display", it is already effectively paperless as they check the boats name using an online laptop against some central database. The day licences I get are thin strips of paper which are totally useless in an open boat therefore they get put into the locker where they cannot blow away
 
Instructions with Licence say should be displayed "in a visible position ideally a forward facing windscreen or surface" - obviously most convenient and easiest to see but in small boats may be impractical - suggest important thing is to be able to produce on demand.
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However, many boat owners - including me - are convinced that a significant number of boats continue to be unlicensed and "getting away" without paying - loud screams UNFAiR
Why do we believe this? Principally because a) we can see no visible sign of a valid licence on display and b) we see little or no evidence of inspectors out and about on the river making checks.
The EA tell us that the number of boats remaining unlicensed at the end of the year is "very few" - I was actually told not that long ago that in the previous year they had "checked every boat on the river" - you will not be surprised to hear that I took this with a very large pinch of sodium chloride!

Unfortunately, even when an unlicensed craft is detected and challenged the delays between serving notice and bringing to court are considerable and in some cases there may even be disputes or identification problems relating to ownership. It is possible to delay paying right up to the eleventh hour and suffer no penalty unless the case actually gets in front of a court.

It costs a significant amount of money to run the enforcement team which, effectively, comes out of the licence fees the rest of us pay - chicken and egg! However, I am growing increasingly frustrated by the EA's apparent lack of attention to enforcement and believe that there is a significant sum to be collected - perhaps several hundred thousand pounds - which would itself provide the funds to improve the activity.

The only reliable statistic is the number of private powered craft licences issued during a year - about 9,000 in 2013. But nobody - and I mean NOBODY - knows exactly how many boats are on the river.
 
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Surely the best answer is to shift the onus for checking who is licensed and who isn't onto a 3rd party, much like traffic wardens did with parking offences or better still Marinas.
 
Any involvement with traffic wardens would be a slippery slope.

The best people to check licences are lock keepers and for boats that don't move, the much missed presence of the river police. My ticket is on the front screen in the cockpit, as it's the only window that doesn't get condensation.

I've only been asked if I have a licence twice in eight years, both times in locks in January.
 
Actionmat said:
The best people to check licences are lock keepers and for boats that don't move, the much missed presence of the river police.
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Little or no problem with boats that transit locks during service hours. Have been pressing for unannounced "flying squad" presence at some locks out of hours which would probably catch quite a few miscreants.

What do you mean by "river police" ? If you mean the "real" police they are just as much under pressure as the EA. They have been involved in some specific multi-agency crack downs such as Teddington and Hampton but most unlikely we will see any possibility of waterborne police patrols generally - that will need to be EA Enforcement teams and they do have more than a dozen launches fit for purpose. They proposed about 400 boat patrol days this year thats only 30 or so per boat and less than 10 per stretch between locks.
 
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Those who have time on their hands may care to read the C&RT Network Access Agreement which specifies what marinas must pay to C&RT in return for access onto the network - a rather sobering document !
Note that the marinas are responsible for ensuring that all boats in the marina do have a valid licence and also for upkeep and maintenance of the connection to the main waterway.
https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/266.pdf
 
boatone said:
Those who have time on their hands may care to read the C&RT Network Access Agreement which specifies what marinas must pay to C&RT in return for access onto the network - a rather sobering document !
Note that the marinas are responsible for ensuring that all boats in the marina do have a valid licence and also for upkeep and maintenance of the connection to the main waterway.
https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/266.pdf
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That sounds like something the Thames should do, shifts the licensing enforcement responsibilty to the marinas. For example they could have fined Harleyford for having 6 unlicensed boats
on their premises, much more likely to get a better financial result than taking 6 individual owners to court.
 
Chris_d said:
That sounds like something the Thames should do, shifts the licensing enforcement responsibilty to the marinas. For example they could have fined Harleyford for having 6 unlicensed boats
on their premises, much more likely to get a better financial result than taking 6 individual owners to court.
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Isn't it that they can only do that because C&RT don't own the water that's in the marina? whereas the water that's in the Thames marina is owned by the EA (don't start another argument on that please:) )
 
Brayman said:
Isn't it that they can only do that because C&RT don't own the water that's in the marina? whereas the water that's in the Thames marina is owned by the EA (don't start another argument on that please:) )
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I don't know but doesn't that make it easier? The link in Tony's post reads that it is a condition of connecting a marina to the main canal network that they ensure all boats
in it are licensed. Might not apply to all Thames marinas but a lot have to cut some sort of channel to allow Thames water to flow in, although some of the pedantry on whether it flows or not could make
you loose the will to live :D
 
Actionmat said:
Any involvement with traffic wardens would be a slippery slope.

The best people to check licences are lock keepers and for boats that don't move, the much missed presence of the river police. My ticket is on the front screen in the cockpit, as it's the only window that doesn't get condensation.

I've only been asked if I have a licence twice in eight years, both times in locks in January.
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A few years ago we bought our boat from the brokers at T & K and on transfer of ownership happily headed down river for an overnight at Henley. Arrived at Shiplake where the Lockie ( now retired but very popular when he was there) pointed out that our licence was two years out of date. Luckily we were still displaying a 'For Sale' board and were just given a severe wigging and told to exit lock, turn around and come straight back in before returning to the Marina.
Bless him - he became a friend on subsequent passages.
 
Will there be any boats left on the Thames if they carry on charging £48 for ONE DAY !!!!
Which is what we paid yesterday.
For this reason, as well as the fact that some idiot built loads of low bridges across the river, will see us on the south coast next year.
 
rubberduck said:
Will there be any boats left on the Thames if they carry on charging £48 for ONE DAY !!!!
Which is what we paid yesterday.
For this reason, as well as the fact that some idiot built loads of low bridges across the river, will see us on the south coast next year.
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Sorry about all the bridges - but I see no more chance of them being demolished or modified to accommodate you than of there being any reductions in the licence fees ! :D

The grand old River Thames is the resident here and the rest of us merely visitors who are welcome to enjoy it if we accept its limitations.
 
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