Disdain at the Lifeboats Collection Tin

[Grumpybear]

So you do not believe the journeyman is worth his hire.

Ifq I may say so, you are in danger of distorting the point made by a number of posters. While it may be true that charity CEOs generally are paid less than large private sector company CEOs, it is dangerous to assume that the latter are worthy of their hire. The catastrophic loss of major British companies e.g. GEC was due to appalling judgement by executives which was nodded through by their non execs who were in clear breach of their fiduciary duty; the culprits were handsomely rewarded for their incompetence and short term ism, and this has continued to this day, most notably in the banks. The revolving door between Whitehall and business created by the last government has extended this disastrous trend to the machinery of government (think of the FSA, HMRC, DEFRA's Rural Payments Agency, to name but three). Along the way, the remuneration committees of all these organisations have systematically raised the salary bar for each other, to the detriment of everyone but themselves. I believe that the pay of charity CEOs (in passing, pay and perks nowadays appear to be referred to as "compensation" - for what dreadful ordeals, in heaven's name?) is often set by committees of their peers; how sure can we be that they are immune to the same temptations? Given that sometimes these organisations are run by men who have retired early from the public service on very generous final salary pensions, the idea of there being a going rate for all is pernicious in my view.

I have no doubt that most (but sadly not all) large charities are well run, though it is a pity that some (obviously not the RNLI, before any of the sacred cow worshippers have another apoplexy) have been corrupted by their dependence on the state for a large proportion of their revenue, but how many leaders in either the private, the public or the charity sector really need or indeed to deserve to be paid more that the Prime Minister ( the office, not the present incumbent, to take the political provocation out of the argument)?

 

[maxi77]

Ifq I may say so, you are in danger of distorting the point made by a number of posters. While it may be true that charity CEOs generally are paid less than large private sector company CEOs, it is dangerous to assume that the latter are worthy of their hire. The catastrophic loss of major British companies e.g. GEC was due to appalling judgement by executives which was nodded through by their non execs who were in clear breach of their fiduciary duty; the culprits were handsomely rewarded for their incompetence and short term ism, and this has continued to this day, most notably in the banks. The revolving door between Whitehall and business created by the last government has extended this disastrous trend to the machinery of government (think of the FSA, HMRC, DEFRA's Rural Payments Agency, to name but three). Along the way, the remuneration committees of all these organisations have systematically raised the salary bar for each other, to the detriment of everyone but themselves. I believe that the pay of charity CEOs (in passing, pay and perks nowadays appear to be referred to as "compensation" - for what dreadful ordeals, in heaven's name?) is often set by committees of their peers; how sure can we be that they are immune to the same temptations? Given that sometimes these organisations are run by men who have retired early from the public service on very generous final salary pensions, the idea of there being a going rate for all is pernicious in my view.

I have no doubt that most (but sadly not all) large charities are well run, though it is a pity that some (obviously not the RNLI, before any of the sacred cow worshippers have another apoplexy) have been corrupted by their dependence on the state for a large proportion of their revenue, but how many leaders in either the private, the public or the charity sector really need or indeed to deserve to be paid more that the Prime Minister ( the office, not the present incumbent, to take the political provocation out of the argument)?

Yes people have got it wrong in all walks of life. that does not mean that it is wrong for charities to pay the going rate for the job. If a CEO screws up it matters little really how much he was paid. And yes I am an ex GEC employee and before that Ferranti so I have seen a few senior management screw ups over the years. I think the level of the PMs salary has very little to do with the whole thing, it is a fudged figure anyway and does not seem to have stopped the last one but one making many millions out of the position in the end, it seems these days taking the salary is an investment for future secure income.

Having seen the dead hand of government creeping into the RYA I am very glad the RNLI keeps well clear of financial support from the government so they make their own choices on staffing, procurement, policy, and most iportant of all the location and equipping of stations.

 

[A1Sailor]

All this because I still have the 15p change from the chippie.

Did you get salt and vinegar on your fish and chips?
It has always struck me as being a bit odd that you get S&V free - at no extra charge. I guess, maybe, that we all make a donation to the local chippie to cover the costs - whether or not we want salt and vinegar. Perhaps the RNLI should be the same? Just thought I'd bring it up.

 

[Searush]

Some perspective.

There is a review by management in the RNLI of doing things more efficiently, it's a LEAN project and has actually resulted in redundancies and restructuring across HQ and broader.

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=rnil+redundancy

There are senior volunteer "HQ" positions, typically part-time. I think one such role is in the area of corporate engagement but would have to confirm.

I'm a crew member. I'm glad we have professional, paid management to run an organisation with effectively ~5,000 staff (full/part time & volunteer) across about 260 locations (stations & offices). Just sayin.

For those of you who continue to support the RNLI with all its strengths and weaknesses - (and I know those from the inside better than many commentators) - thank you.

For those of you who make uninformed, unsubstantiated and inaccurate sweeping generalisations - I'll still come and get you too when you need it.

Cheers

RR.

Thank you for being available should we ever need you, and thanks too for a reasoned view from the inside. Please accept my apologies for the strange, prejudiced & uninformed views expressed by the noisy minority on this forum.

 

[Sybarite]

does not seem to have stopped the last one but one making many millions out of the position in the end, .

He gets paid that because certain people are willing to pay to hear what he has to say : the same applies to Clinton, Gorbachev (whom I heard at a dinner), Giscard d'Estaing etc etc.

 

[Sybarite]

Except that this isn't actually true is it?

According to the SNSM web site, there are 70 employees

Most of whom are mechanics who service the boats at the St Malo centre.

As far as funding is concerned the ratio used to be 50:50 but the SNSM has acknowledged that it must tighten its belt as everybody else in the economy has to do the same. So last year the public funding (mainly the local authorities) represented only 29% of the total but, as I have already pointed out, that's 29% of £20m not £150m. This percentage is forecast to fall and if the SNSM had a £1m deficit in its accounts last year, is is because they incurred expenditure in order to gear up to raise more funds from the public.

"How absolute the knave is! We must speak by the card, or equivocation will undo us" (Hamlet)

 

[Sybarite]

RNLI management staff have in the past responded to comments here, so we must be on their radar.

I for one would be interested to hear their reaction.

 

[Sybarite]

Can 't see the logic of not giving to a charity just because it has staff paid more than you.

I presume therefore you don't give to Cancer Research where the CEO gets between £210,000 and £220,000 and has 160 staff earning over £60,000.

Actually the French equivalent a few years ago ended up in prison for siphoning off a bit more than his fair share.

What I think you are pointing out is how the UK is building up its next big bubble to burst.

If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. And do we really want the RNLI, or any of the other charities, run by monkeys. Shorn

On that basis I am very happy with and grateful to the French monkeys who devote so much to running the French service so effectively. Perhaps the RNLI should ape them?

 

[Sybarite]

. What is more they have to make do where as the RNLI believe their volunteer crews deserve the best equipment.

This pre-supposes that the French boats aren't fit for purpose. They are superb boats.

 

[glashen]

Some perspective.

There is a review by management in the RNLI of doing things more efficiently, it's a LEAN project and has actually resulted in redundancies and restructuring across HQ and broader.

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=rnil+redundancy

There are senior volunteer "HQ" positions, typically part-time. I think one such role is in the area of corporate engagement but would have to confirm.

I'm a crew member. I'm glad we have professional, paid management to run an organisation with effectively ~5,000 staff (full/part time & volunteer) across about 260 locations (stations & offices). Just sayin.

For those of you who continue to support the RNLI with all its strengths and weaknesses - (and I know those from the inside better than many commentators) - thank you.

For those of you who make uninformed, unsubstantiated and inaccurate sweeping generalisations - I'll still come and get you too when you need it.

Cheers

RR.

Thanks for the comments and thanks for being there if I ever need you. I think you can tell from the comments on the various threads that the RNLI has a lot of support, some of the criticisms bear listening to but I can't say I'm convinced, some are just plain ignorant.

The one good thing that can be said for all these threads is that many of us are now better informed and personally if anything it has convinced me the RNLI is well managed, but the one thing almost all us agree on is that the volunteer crews cannot be praised too highly.

 

[AndrewB]

I for one would be interested to hear their reaction.

As I said, senior RNLI staff have contributed in the past, here's one, for example. I'd hardly blame them for keeping clear of threads like this, but they may well take notice.