Disdain at the Lifeboats Collection Tin

Fish & chip shop eh? And where do the fish come from?

Oh my, someone has to go out to sea & risk their lives catching them for you.

Yes, I know it's a statement of the bleedin' obvious, but Fishermen die at sea every year, they more than anyone need the support of the RNLI. They are out in all weathers all year round & often in quite small boats.

I find it hard to think of a more appropriate place for an RNLI collecting box, especially in an inland area where few people generally "connect" with the sea. A way to thank the fishermen who caught that fish by helping to keep them a tiny bit safer as you enjoy eating it.

We support several charities in a small way, but no-one can support all. Small local charities often struggle to meet their aims & have little money available for offices & overheads. For bigger, richer charities (National Trust, English Heritage, RSPB, RNLI etc etc) a small percentage of total income can cover a decent office & equipment for those administering the charity.

When running a small local charity myself, we needed a part-time administrator & bought time from the local District Voluntary Services. There was never any way that we would need or could build or rent an office full of people. It's a completely different situation for a nationwide organisation with a turnover of millions. There is simply far more work to be done & the resources should be there to support them.

Don't forget that the new RNLI buildings in Poole generate income in their own right as a hotel, conference centre & training centre as well as offering a good environment for those who work there.

Having smart offices isn't necessarily a sign of bad management or waste. It can also be a sign of good management & forward thinking investment.

But please feel free to make up your own minds about who you support without trying to undermine others unnecessarily.
 
AndrewB said:
I share Babylon's uncertainty. Collection tins do not seem a really appropriate way of funding a vital rescue service. There's no obvious relationship between what they raise and what they need. Moreover, they are not directly accountable for how they spend it. Some people here seem to think they need everything they can get, others that they are an over-wealthy organisation given to extravagance.

We don't core-fund other rescue services such as ambulance, fire, this way; so why lifeboats?

(P.S. While ambulance and fire are not volunteer services in the UK, public funding does not preclude a volunteer service: this is the norm for the fire service in many countries).
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Wrong! The Fire Services depend a great deal on volunteer fire fighters, these people work in normal ordinary day jobs, and respond to a pager just as the lifeboat crews do. They get paid for each shout, but you certainly couldn't live on it. Retained fire fighters are mostly used in rural and semi rural areas. They have training sessions one or two evenings each week, and go on full time training at least once a year.
 
Chrusty 1 said:
Wrong! The Fire Services depend a great deal on volunteer fire fighters, these people work in normal ordinary day jobs, and respond to a pager just as the lifeboat crews do. They get paid for each shout, but you certainly couldn't live on it. Retained fire fighters are mostly used in rural and semi rural areas. They have training sessions one or two evenings each week, and go on full time training at least once a year.
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And more.

UK ambulance services in adverse weather rely on volunteers - St Johns operate 4x4 cover in Wales, the Red Cross elsewhere. All local first responders are volunteers.

All the UK coastguard rescue officers are volunteers.

All UK mountain and cave rescue are volunteers.

In Devon and Cornwall, about 80% of the fire crews are retained - higher numbers in Wales and Scotland.

Outside the cities, have an emergency and there is a very high chance the first people you see will be volunteers.
 
Even the police, especially here in the highlands, rely on the Special Constables very heavily...again volunteers...I recall sending an ambulance 999 to a lad who got glassed back in 2006 - a colleague in the control room who was also a special told me that on that evening, of the eight police officers in inverness able to attend - 6 were regular coppers and 2 were specials, and that's the usual staffing levels!

But to go back to where that assertion came from - that the idea of a collection box is awry because the emergency service don't do it. It's chalk and cheese.

These volunteers are part of a paid and government funded (in most cases) operation.

the RNLI is not.

Incidentally, a number of posts on this thread have just made me decide to go and drop a few quid in our collection box! Persuasive and well reasoned posts on here for the most part....I would say that the recent plethora of RNLI threads on here have re-assured many that it's a worthy and highly effective charity! :)
 
AndrewB said:
I share Babylon's uncertainty. Collection tins do not seem a really appropriate way of funding a vital rescue service. There's no obvious relationship between what they raise and what they need. Moreover, they are not directly accountable for how they spend it. Some people here seem to think they need everything they can get, others that they are an over-wealthy organisation given to extravagance.

We don't core-fund other rescue services such as ambulance, fire, this way; so why lifeboats?

(P.S. While ambulance and fire are not volunteer services in the UK, public funding does not preclude a volunteer service: this is the norm for the fire service in many countries).
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Many fire & ambulance services are provided by volunteers, our market town firestation is manned by volunteers as are others nearby. The nearest fully paid station is 15 miles away. Many volunteers run the elderly & infirm to & from hospital in their own private cars. Much of this is a consequence of reduced government funding which would means that those services would otherwise have been withdrawn. Think on the consequence of that happening to the lifeboat that serves YOUR cruising area.

The RNLI is deeply against EVER accepting government funding for its activities for that very reason.

Oh, & core funding does NOT come from the lifeboat boxes, although they do provide a useful & very welcome amount every year.

Most towns all over the UK have a Lifeboat Committee (or similar title) that organises fundraising events throughout the year. This offers social benefits to the town as well as generating useful funds. In addition, the RNLI "businesses" generate significant income, but the majority of income for the RNLI comes (I believe) from legacies, many of them quite large.
 
FishyInverness said:
Even the police, especially here in the highlands, rely on the Special Constables very heavily...again volunteers...I recall sending an ambulance 999 to a lad who got glassed back in 2006 - a colleague in the control room who was also a special told me that on that evening, of the eight police officers in inverness able to attend - 6 were regular coppers and 2 were specials, and that's the usual staffing levels!

But to go back to where that assertion came from - that the idea of a collection box is awry because the emergency service don't do it. It's chalk and cheese.

These volunteers are part of a paid and government funded (in most cases) operation.

the RNLI is not.

Incidentally, a number of posts on this thread have just made me decide to go and drop a few quid in our collection box! Persuasive and well reasoned posts on here for the most part....I would say that the recent plethora of RNLI threads on here have re-assured many that it's a worthy and highly effective charity! :)
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Good on yer fish face!:cool::D
 
chanelyacht said:
And more.

UK ambulance services in adverse weather rely on volunteers - St Johns operate 4x4 cover in Wales, the Red Cross elsewhere. All local first responders are volunteers.

All the UK coastguard rescue officers are volunteers.

All UK mountain and cave rescue are volunteers.

In Devon and Cornwall, about 80% of the fire crews are retained - higher numbers in Wales and Scotland.

Outside the cities, have an emergency and there is a very high chance the first people you see will be volunteers.
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Indeed so, I am starting to loose the will to live because of the utter bollix that is being spouted on these life boat threads. So I didn't feel like making a list.
 
I worked for a large international charity for 10 years in a managerial position. The charity's turnover at that time was in excess of £20million per annum. I, along with my other colleagues were paid well commensurate with our experience and the jobs we were doing and I defend any charity's right to employ professional and able personnel - it is indeed big business.

I've not worked within that sector for the last 7 years so I'm not up to speed with current charity law. However, when I was working within that sector, street or door to door collections had to be licenced by both the local authority and the police on a set day and between set hours. Those who rattled tins on the street corner were not permitted to approach members of the public - they had to merely stand there in the hope of collecting donations.

Collecting tins on fish and chip shop counters, in pubs etc, etc, were subject to strict registration i.e. where they were situated, how frequently they were emptied (in the presence of the siteholder and a charity representative - usually a local volunteer).

As far as chuggers go, I was never involved in this type of fund-raising however, I believe I've recently read somewhere that the legislation regarding chugging has been updated. I'll have to go and research that one before commenting.

UK registered charities are publicly accountable - a little research online will reveal where your money goes (as has been discussed at length on other threads recently).

The Charity Commission exists as a safety net for you, the giving member of the public and ensures that UK registered charities act responsibly.

As another poster has commented, we all have a choice, we can donate where we wish or not at all.
 
halyardmonkey. said:
This is a very interesting debate.

At ll costs you should protect the RNLI's independent status. In doing so, you may well have to put up with a well paid management structure to protect this. The reason is thus:

Once upon of a time. The voluntary sector was a vibrant independent and responsive sector. Able to evolve and change to the needs of their client base. Unfortunately, something changed. It accepted state money and contracts and in doing so lost some of its independence. These days it is much more target driven. Accepting a contract such as the ambulance service will then involve a target driven approach which will distort the real work of what is required and their focus will be diverted to meeting the needs of their paymasters. No longer will the RNLI respond to real difficulties on the water but will then need to meet a fictitious need deemed in their contract with who ever.

I suspect the anxiety about donating in the box has much to do with the RNLI's silly viewpoints on a few things recently. If they remain independent we will be able to influence them. If they went the other way, only their funders will be bale to.

Put money in the jar, fill out a direct debit and lobby them hard about what you don't like........
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And
 
Kurrawong_Kid said:
And
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And perhaps that's what these forum threads are doing-informing the RNLI what we don't like! I just hope someone from HQ is reading and taking note, selecting the malicious from the applicable and making the upper reaches of management aware of genuine concerns.
What concerns me, as a Governor subscriber, is the increasing number of managers on high salaries at Poole. I can accept the need for professionals like surveyors to be paid the market rate, doing a "hands on job", but I think there needs to be a thorough examination of the structure to streamline it and remove high salary waste and duplication. A management review!
But I'll still continue putting my spare coppers in the fish tin, in addition to my subscription, not only to support the crews, but also the army of fund raising volunteers.
Wonderful workers all!
 
Kurrawong_Kid said:
And perhaps that's what these forum threads are doing-informing the RNLI what we don't like! I just hope someone from HQ is reading and taking note, selecting the malicious from the applicable and making the upper reaches of management aware of genuine concerns.
What concerns me, as a Governor subscriber, is the increasing number of managers on high salaries at Poole. I can accept the need for professionals like surveyors to be paid the market rate, doing a "hands on job", but I think there needs to be a thorough examination of the structure to streamline it and remove high salary waste and duplication. A management review!
But I'll still continue putting my spare coppers in the fish tin, in addition to my subscription, not only to support the crews, but also the army of fund raising volunteers.
Wonderful workers all!
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As long as it is not the type of management review foisted onto government supported charities with all the PC manageent speak and re-organisation that costs a fortune just to satisfy some overpaid over etc managment consultancy company.

A properly structured review focused on what is required to deliver the service to seafarers and the volunteers one must never forget them, could be a good thing, but in my life I have seen very few reviews that have actually even made a return of the fee never mind a profit
 
maxi77 said:
As long as it is not the type of management review foisted onto government supported charities with all the PC manageent speak and re-organisation that costs a fortune just to satisfy some overpaid over etc managment consultancy company.

A properly structured review focused on what is required to deliver the service to seafarers and the volunteers one must never forget them, could be a good thing, but in my life I have seen very few reviews that have actually even made a return of the fee never mind a profit
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I wouldn't worry your head Peter, it aint ever going to happen, thank goodness.:)

I am at a total loss as to why some seem to think that what they have to say on some tin pot little forum is going to be taken any real notice of by anybody. Not just the RNLI, but anybody.

The only ones that take any notice is we who participate, and I don't think that I for one am important enough to be making any difference. Some it seems do think they are important, sad wee souls.
 
Chrusty 1 said:
I wouldn't worry your head Peter, it aint ever going to happen, thank goodness.:)

I am at a total loss as to why some seem to think that what they have to say on some tin pot little forum is going to be taken any real notice of by anybody. Not just the RNLI, but anybody.

The only ones that take any notice is we who participate, and I don't think that I for one am important enough to be making any difference. Some it seems do think they are important, sad wee souls.
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Indeed, but one must keep the pot boiling sometimes particularly when some peoples arguments are somewhat flawed
 
Chrusty 1 said:
I am at a total loss as to why some seem to think that what they have to say on some tin pot little forum is going to be taken any real notice of by anybody. Not just the RNLI, but anybody.
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Richard,
I wish to thank you, Laura and all the hardworking staff at IPC for providing us with such a marvellous tin pot little forum.:)

A1
 
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