Disadvantages of a lifting keel?

Kelpie

Kelpie

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I'm in the early stages of scoping out what sort of boat to eventually upgrade to (from my Wayfarer). As explored in a previous thread, I'm aiming for something around 24-26ft and about 2t displacement, preferably with about 5'6 headroom or more and a separate heads (or head in the forecabin at least). The length/displacement requirements are to allow it be towed (end of season only) which will suit my needs.
There are many boats which fit these criteria, however a great deal are of swinging or lifting keel design. I understand that these designs have advantages in easier loading/unloading from a trailer, access to shallow water, and use of shallow or drying moorings. None of these are really of great value to me- towing would be a once a season affair, and we don't really have 'shallow' water where I live!

What is far mroe important to me is a robust and seaworthy design, because the weather up here can get pretty nasty. Most of the yachts around here are long keelers, some are fixed fins, and bilge or lift keels are very rare. My preference is thus for a fixed keel, probably a fin, but this is based entirely on assumptions!

So, am I wrong to eschew the lift keel boats? Is it paranoid to think that they will break at the wrong moment when I'm caught out in bad weather half way across the Minch?
 
Hmm

Advantages of a lifting keel - when the weather is going to get nasty you can get it out of the water to a safer place ...
You can anchor closer in, but still enjoy deep draft sailing

Disadvantages are that you have to maintain the lifting mechanism and any swivel. You won't have as much weight low in the water
 
Someone who is launching and recovering frequently (trail sailing or dry sailing) may want shallow draught so they don't need as much water to float the boat off the trailer.

To launch and recover once a year I wouldn't put too much emphasis on making it easy. Even if the boat doesn't go on the trailer first time, it will on the fifth or sixth so it may take an hour instead of 10 mins. If you set the trailer up with guides and stops and things even a fin keeler will go on easily.

Pick a boat to sail in deep water if that's what you are going to be doing.

Of course if you want to get right in to the beach and even dry out upright, a bilge keel would work for you.

To get a lift keel to wind it up once a year seems to me to be a bit of a waste.
 
That's exactly how I was thinking. No point having a feature if I don't need it.
I was just wondering if I was imagining the 'disadvantages' of a lift keel.
 
With fin or bilge, craning in and out would save your trailer from immersion and perhaps probs with slipways which might compensate for the extra cost.
A
 
I used to own an Etap 22i. The only problem I had was caused by the yard who used to look after the boat for the previous owner. They antifouled the boat on the trailer and didn't touch the keel above the bulb. When I swam under the boat I saw fouling on that part of the keel. Luckily the place I kept the boat could lift it off the trailer for me to lower the keel and clean it all. During the following winter I removed the keel and had it galvanised, epoxied and antifouled.
Allan
 
if you want seaworthy and reliable i would steer clear of lift keels to me they sound like a disaster waiting to happen. you cant beat a long keeler for sea worthiness. I've got a macwester rowan 22ft and would happily take her any where in any weather. there is one doing the Jester challenge next year and would do the same if I could afford the time off work.
 
The other conundrum I’d add to your equation is the "seaworthy" V "speed" issue. If all you are going to do is short passages you’re probably going to chose weather that is comfortable in either type of boat, on the other hand if you’re going to do longer serious passage seaworthy will be more important, and IMHO difficult to achieve without real commitment in 24ft boats that are very seaworthy and not very fast. I’m biased to the speed end of the equation in a similar sized boat which by the way also has a lifting keel, but then its crowded here and there are lots of good shallow water anchorages not to mention beaches, and it comes home on its fin keel trailer each winter as its a pain not being able to get to the keel in the winter.
 
I have a seamaster sailer 23 with lift keel, it has a substantial cast iron stub keel and good seakeeping qualities for its size, not found any real disadvantages.
 
seumask said:
The other conundrum I’d add to your equation is the "seaworthy" V "speed" issue.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm starting to see a bit of a dillema there.
Some of the quarter-tonner types seem to fit the bill- about 1.8t displacement so trailerable, excellent turn of speed, and many have decent accomodation too. However I've seen how most are flat-bottom types with low ballast ratio and a spindly deep fin, and it doesn't inspire confidence. But they look as though they'd go like the clappers!

On the other hand, the smaller folkboaty types look more sturdy but will, I presume, be considerably slower to sail.

It's all a compromise, but bear in mind I'm a dinghy sailor and not too old (yet) so some people class me as a 'speed freak'... the quarter tonners look the way to go. I think.
 
Have sailed both a lift keel Sonata and a fin keel version.

The fin keel sails better.

Also, had regulay problems with keel becoming stuck. Sometimes had to wat till end of season to free it ashore (mind you it was on a drying mooring). Sailed her across the North Sea in fresh conditions with keel jammed up - stability was not too badly affected but leeway was not too good!
 
I have had several lift keels.

Space can be an issue with the Hunter Delta 25 and the Dehler 25

Beneteau First 25/26 are good and Evolution 25 is also good.

I had a limbo 6.6 (21ft) which was an entrant to Mini -Transtlantic, as was Anderson 22 and Seal 22 I think.

However, it seems from your usage profile that you would be better off with a specialised trailer and tow home a fin keeler like a Sadler 26 for instance.
 
I had a Jeanneau Sun Odysea 24.2 Lifting keel. The downside was that it sailed like a racing dinghy! The upside was that we could beach it, tow it, dry out on mud and generally explore areas up rivers.

Possitives outweighed the negatives!

Paul
 
Antifouling more difficult

I had a lifting keel boat for a few years. I never really got any advantage, and the big disadvantage was that it needed a fully supporting cradle to properly antifoul it as it couldn't just be supported on its keel like a fin. That needs at least six pads on the cradle if you don't want to risk over stressing the hull. Housing our trailer (never used in almost 7 years) was a pain as well.

If you don't need it I would steer clear to be honest.
 
Mrs. Mick and I sailed an old wooden Wayfarer for many years before buying our present boat, a bilge keel Sadler 26, nine years ago. Great wee yacht and very forgiving. We sail all over the west coast of Scotland in her, including Stornoway, and she looks after us well. She won't point as high as a fin but think of the anchoring possibilities near where you are.
 
BlueMan said:
I had a lifting keel boat for a few years. I never really got any advantage, and the big disadvantage was that it needed a fully supporting cradle to properly antifoul it as it couldn't just be supported on its keel like a fin. That needs at least six pads on the cradle if you don't want to risk over stressing the hull. Housing our trailer (never used in almost 7 years) was a pain as well.

If you don't need it I would steer clear to be honest.
Click to expand...

I used to lock down my Evolution 25 (yes I checked wit the designer) and drey out against a wall twice a season for scrub off and antifoul. No problem, and no cradle either.
 
Lifting keels are certainly not "a disaster waiting to happen". That comes straight from the Private Fraser "We're all Doomed" school of thinking. It does seem however that a lifting keel is not necessary for the type of sailing envisaged by the OP, so why go for the extra complication? Go for a fin or bilge keel setup.

In my circumstances I trailer my Dehler 22 in and out every outing, single handed sometimes and the lift keel and water ballast makes it a doddle. It sits low on the trailer so tows like a dream, and I can float it on and off in about 2 ft of water. The downside is the keelcase occupies a considerable amount of the cabin, but you quite literally work around it. Its perfectly seaworthy as small boats go.

Its horses for courses

Tim
 
I had several very happy years with a lifting keel (Hunter Liberty 22). It was a simple set up (gravity pulls it down, string pulls it up) and I often used to worry about it (would the rope snap, was the bearing ok, would the boat right itself if rolled and the board dropped back in to place etc.) but it never let me down.

If the boat is well designed down below then you don't notice the centreboard case.

And the places you can sneak in to. Although your neck of the woods is "deep" there are still plenty of tiny places to explore and hidden pools to penetrate, and its always nice to anchor right outside the pub when everyone else needs a dinghy with an outboard to commute for a beer.

I particularly remember sheltering from a big storm in an almost landlocked pool behind Hermetray. I was glad I didn't have a keel on that occasion. Also happy memories of bumbling around in a few inches of water on the sands at Morar. She was simply a fun boat.

Regards,

Robin

ps Now have a near 2m draught fin, and I really do miss the good old days...
 
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