Dinghy spinnaker foredeck tube...any hints?

Greenheart

Greenheart

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I've seen plenty of them in dinghies, but I can't see them for sale anywhere. Except this one at Pinnell & Bax, intended for a Mirror, and I slightly suspect it's too petite for my Osprey's spinnaker...looks curiously like a lavatory-pan, doesn't it...

Mirror_Spinnaker_Chute_Only_MIR41.jpg


It won't make me very happy to cut a hole in my foredeck, but I'm keen to start using the spinnaker next year and when I'm singlehanded, I don't believe it'll be possible if I'm fooling around with the sail in a bag...it needs to be all in place but out of the way until needed, lines attached and ready to hoist. So I want to make the chute/tube as neat as possible, and in exactly the right place...

...any hints about positioning and use? And any idea where I can find the deck tube-opening? Thanks in advance.
 
That's interesting as I am pondering on how to launch/recover a spinnaker on my 22footer singlehanded and I am hoping that getting a sailmaker to make a stiff(ish) mouth sail bag and using the dinghy technique of a bullseye centrally positioned recovery line in the spinnaker will enable me to achieve my aim without any structural work to the deck.

It wouldn't be a pretty solution for you but could you adapt that idea perhaps?

The spinnaker pole(s) are another issue for me and as I've never seen a 'fly-away' system on a keel boat (other than my Flying Fifteen, some years ago) I'm not at all sure that I've got my head around that idea yet- but that will not be a problem for you.
 
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Thanks Gin. Honestly I'm like a child as far as the spinnaker goes...I've barely had it out of its bag after three years, but after recently discovering with glee how fast my lightly laden boat sails downwind in a force two, I'll be glad to hoist even more sail in similarly benign conditions, and watch all those dedicated, frustrated club racers slip astern... :cool:

...the point being that whatever is easiest will be my plan, because I don't have to pay any attention to any class or club rules. I've used sail-bags in the past to gather in the nameless clutter which otherwise rolls around my cockpit floor, and I've rather regretted it...the bags were too big, so whatever was heaviest in them, sank to the cockpit centre-line and soaked up brine...

...I've since bought smaller bags for the many halyard-ends and spare lines which usually stray around the deck, but I'll try to avoid another big orange sack in the cockpit if possible, hence the chute-question. Maybe the one advertised for the Mirror, is perfectly adequate for the Osprey.

I know a whole box of dubious delights may await the casual singlehander in a two/three man dinghy if he tackles the spinnaker pole, up & downhaul, guys, sheets etc; so the system I employ needn't be very slick (mainly for extended broad reaches and dead-downwind) but easier is better.

On such a day late this season under main and genoa, I cleated the sheets and lit a cigar for 15 minutes, so I reckon I could have played with spinnaker lines instead...

...but I want to be able to hoist it without undue faffing, and get the kite back in its place of slumber at a few moments' notice when the situation changes. P'raps I'll find one of those launching-tubes at a boat-jumble.
 
Dan,

my wooden Osprey did fine without a chute, I did use the spinnaker singlehanded and as long as one errs on the side of caution it should be fine.

I was a bit doubtful I'd be able to right her singlehanded with a mass of wet spi, even releasing the sheet so as to avoid the bag effect - so I made sure I could reach the halliard from the water.

I remember on my Osprey or Scorpion I once overcooked it solo with kite up, and did have to pull the spinnaker down to the cockpit while swimming.

The trickiest bit was furling the jib, which on that boat meant laying out full length on the foredeck to reach the bobble on the end of the furling line !

Easily fixed with a longer line, it may have been fun for crew but I decided to leave the jib unfurled when solo.

One big snag which would put me off a chute, especially in your cruising use, is the way they scoop up a lot of water and send it into the cockpit, in any waves; it would make keeping your stowed kit dry much more difficult.
 
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The latest version of the Wayfarer has a chute but the world champion and a number of top sailors tape it over and have gone back to spinnaker bags.

IMHO the best way is spinnaker bags and a pump spinnaker halyard. Crew launch the spinnaker and helm just does a couple of pumps. Difficult to set it up properly with right amount of elastic budgie cord so that it both launches easy and not to hard for crew to pull down.

Biggest problem with a chute is the friction and that helm has their head inside the boat for a longer period during launch and recovery. Ok for cruising but not the perfect solution for racing.
 
I faced the same dilema with my early Lark which didn't have a chute. I believe that you could get moulded chutes in past times for larger boats but since very few people need them now they've gone from the market. I cut a hole in my Lark foredeck just abaft the forestay and back to a deck beam. I then reinforced and rounded the edges on the underside only with GRP filler and then fitted an alloy tube (offcut of jib /spin pole) across the hull at the back end of the hole about an inch below deck level. This means the spinnaker pulls in under the pole and not under the sharper deck. This worked fine and allowed me to happliy set a spin with my 6 yr old kids crewing, so effectively single handed. Hope this is useful and makes sense.
 
I had a Mirror in the late 70's with a spinnaker chute similar to the picture above (and yes, the French mother of one of my brother's friends did ask me why I had a 'gentleman's toilet' at the front of my boat).

It came with the fabric sock, which tied round the end of the chute with a drawstring and tied to an eye on the foredeck at the aft end. The spinnaker had an eye dead centre on the outside and the lower end of the halyard led out through the sock and chute and tied to the eye - pulling on the lower end of the halyard as the head end was released collapsed it the spinnaker efficiently and pulled into the sock.

The pole was double ended and clipped into a fixed ring on the mast, with a length of bungee attached to the mast to control the height of the pole. It dropped into a fitting on the middle of the pole and a series of knots allowed the angle of the pole to be adjusted.
 
Having the, perhaps unique, experience of flying an Osprey spinnaker in a Mirror dinghy, I can confirm the mirror chute would be too small for your purpose. (Also that the Mirror mast plus gunter was too short - as the spinnaker foot was in the water!)

If I recall correctly, the Osprey class changed the spinnaker size in the late 70s/early 80s. For single handed use the older one would probably be better.
In those days most Ospreys had beautiful moulded spinnaker chutes set into the bows ahead of the forestay. The ideal solution and much easier to quickly tame the kite if the breeze pops up. However, unless you can salvage this off another old scrap Osprey likely to be an expensive purchase new.
Perhaps the Osprey class association could help with suggestions, photos and perhaps even an old chute (as some scrapped these as the fashion swung between bag hoists and chutes)
 
Thank you gentlemen, for all your recollections and recommendations.

dunedin said:
Having the, perhaps unique, experience of flying an Osprey spinnaker in a Mirror dinghy, I can confirm the Mirror chute would be too small for your purpose.
Click to expand...

It certainly seems to be uncommon fortuity, to get an informed reply to a question which one had to be slightly barmy to ask! :biggrin-new:

dunedin said:
...the Osprey class changed the spinnaker size in the late 70s/early 80s. For single handed use the older one would probably be better.
Click to expand...

...or, perhaps I could get a tidy little Mirror spinnaker, to fit the chute? ;) Actually I think it was the 505 which grew a bigger kite.

dunedin said:
...most Ospreys had beautiful moulded spinnaker chutes set into the bows ahead of the forestay. The ideal solution and much easier to quickly tame the kite if the breeze pops up.
Click to expand...

Might that have been the Flying Dutchman? I doubt the Osp's chute was ahead of the forestay - there isn't room, at least on mine...

20140820_180315_zpsqozxcjlq.jpg


...but from all that's been said, I think I'll need a foredeck chute, even if I have to fabricate most of it myself. I don't care how slickly racing duos do it with their kites in bags, I'll be alone (or with the kind of passengers who'll mean I might as well be alone) and I want to be able to launch and retrieve the thing with minimum fuss.

I haven't even tried hoisting the kite in the dinghy park. I untied the spinnaker blocks from the aft deck to make room for my oars, a couple of years back, so there'll be a lot of force 1 experimenting before I really know what I'll be able to use with confidence.

Thanks again. :encouragement:
 
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Yes at least some Ospreys do have the chute ahead of the forestay .
http://sailingdinghies.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=450222
I think some of the wooden ones may have had a triangular chute partly ahead and partly to one side of the forestay, but can't find any good pictures of this to show

PS Somebody on the class website is selling a wooden boat for spares - might be worth contacting them to see what you can salvage
 
If you are interested I have a Mirror fiberglass chute in my garage. Certainly would be a lot cheaper than a new one. Just send me a PM if you are interested. It might take a couple of days to locate and photograph.
 
I know your direction of thought is to use your existing spinnaker.... Why not go for a roller reefed masthead code zero on a stubby bowsprit?
 
Thanks again gentlemen, for the ideas and for that kind offer. As you say Dunedin, the forward chute can be done, and very neatly, at least aboard those recent Hartley Mk4 models.

TSB, I only just read your reply. Nice idea too, but I've had no luck at all, finding such a sail which is anything like the right size, and cheap enough to be worth considering. It was my first preference, and I may still go for it if the sail becomes available.

I suspect that the Mirror chute really is too small, or I'd gratefully accept yours Concerto, but thank you. I took a look at my spinnaker this evening and it's quite a wad of sailcloth...at 17sq metres, it is a full four times the size of the Mirror's kite!

Still, I daresay I've at least four chilly months in which to construct a system that makes it all manageable. Watch this space... :rolleyes:
 
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Having sailed a few boats with kites single handed, I reckon a bag system would be OK, if the kite was always in the leeward bag.
A windward-bag launch might be tricky!
On m current boat, the chute is essentially mostly a stainless tube which the jib is shackled to and the kite slides around.
It takes the jib loads into the hull sides.
Plenty of Merlins have wooden chute mouths. A laminated beam under the tack mostly.
You do have to consider how the forestay/jib tack loads are dealt with, there is likely something pretty structural where you want the kite to run.

One of the twin pole self-launching systems as found on Merlins might be of interest?
 
Dan, you may find that a merkin spinnaker easier to handle.When I had my Merlin I used 6 " dia soil pipe as the mouth of the chute with a bend. The mouth was screwed and glued at deck level with a netting tube attached to the pipe end. I had no problems launching or retrieving (centre patch line led back to a jamming cleat on the centreboard casing .The launching and retrieval needs free running halyards and sheets to avoid problems and the pole preset for height /angle.
Other dinghies I' ve seen have used a long stocking with a solid 'mouth ' above deck ,usually starboard side.

ianat182
 
Have you thought about some sort of spinnaker snuffer arrangement? Might be easier than hacking around with the structural parts of your Osprey bow. Then you simply leave the thing hoisted when you don't need it, or you can retrieve it into the cockpit if you have the time/inclination.
 
I doubt the Osp's chute was ahead of the forestay - there isn't room, at least on mine...

Definately was my osprey 110 had the moulded chute. it was a funny shape like a kidney so it wrapped itself round the forestay
 
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