Dinghy as Bowthruster

[walker]

We have just become (part) boatowners for the first time and our first time out on the new boat will be late October in Croatia. As one of life's worriers I have come up with another thought to give me sleepless nights. Our sailing experience largely consists of about a dozen or so weeks flotillaing in the Med in summer and I am pretty happy with bows/stern to mooring, but I have never skippered into a marina. We plan as far as possible to stay out of marinas anyway, but the one time when we might want to use them is if there is a stiff blow (pretty likely at that time of year). Which is where the worry comes in. The boat is a Bavaria 42 (no comment required!); I understand windage can be a major problem; and there seems prescious little room for error in a marina. So the question is, would it be feasible to use a 4hp equipped dinghy as a kind of bowthruster? And if so, does anyone have any view about the sort of max. wind strength this would be effective in? Very grateful for any views.



<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Nick_Pam]

Have chartered a lot in the Easter Med prior to buying my own last March and always found that a lot of the Marinas had a berthing master who used an inflatable to "encourage" your bow or stern into the right berth if you were stern-to....
Now because they charged around all over the place, it was usually a RIB with a 20hp o/b, but I seem no reason why an inflatable tender with a suitably sized o/b wouldn't do the trick.
Depends on how many are there of you aboard, as if only two (the way myself and my significant other sail) then one on the yacht and one in the dinghy I think would leave you a bit "under-staffed"!!

Good luck.......but remember to enjoy!!!
Nick

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[walker]

Thanks Nick. We will generally be three on board so should be able to manage - possibly easier than trying to warp round a boat that size in a blow. Should be fun!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Benbow]

It is certainly possible to use a dinghy in this way, and sometimes useful.

However, much as I hate to be boring, I think it should only be needed under very special circumstances. Generally I think you will be much better off learning to do it slowly, calmly and under control by more conventional means using prop wash, prop walk, wind, current and springs. If you can attach one bit of your boat to the shore then you can invariably drive the other end in by one or other of these methods.

Certainly if I had only two assistants available, I would rather have them both on deck ready to pass lines ashore and information to the helm. One loose cannon buzzing about in dinghy and unable to communicate with the boat could be quite dangerous. When you have a slick team for doing it the normal way, then I would think about using a dinghy for really spectacular manoevers !

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[walker]

Thanks, that seems like sensible advice, and boring berthing is probably the best kind. The thing that was worrying me was trying to rope her round in a gale - I consider myself a reasonably strong chap but there looks to be an awful lot of freeboard on the other end. I have booked to do Day Skipper practical in July and in addition I intend to find a sailing school with a similar boat to ours and get a couple of days private tuition in the UK before I do it for real in Croatia, so I'll make sure marina type berthing is well up on the syllabus.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Benbow]

>I consider myself a reasonably strong chap

Strength should not be an issue. You can use the engine and warps to do (almost) anything you like. If you find yourself sweating on a rope you are doing it wrong ! Your boat is small compared to some i've worked on and in some ways it makes it easier when you know that just overpowering it with muscle is not an option.





<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[walker]

Ahhh. Warps AND engine - I think I'm getting there!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[tcm]

hi. I do stern-to mooring a fair bit. Using the dinghy is indeed an option. But you should not need it, and it needs some practise : the dinghy driver feels that it is "doing nothing" and so tends to push and push until you are somewhere else or have busted a fender against a quayside, so establish hand signals to apply/desist a side push.

i would imagine that with a bav you will want to moor stern-to most of the time, to get off to the quay.

One good idea is to prcatise driving the thing round backwards, and at some significant speed, obviously outside the marina. Yep, sounds mad, but this gives you a good feel for how the boat feels in reverse, how the bow behaves and so on. The steering is very easily upset, so best keep thumbs out of the way of the wheel, as with a starting handle. There's a "kick" to one side or anothher, as the boat starts moving sternwards, but this is only for the first bit of the reverse.

When mooring with wind the utterly utterly important thing is to back the boat into the berth starting with stern pointing towards the wind. That is to say, point the boat downwind before starting to reverse. This way you have "way on" into the wind and the bow doesn't get caught and blown away too much - in fact, you drive at the windward boat, and so have extra "brakes". If you go with the wind, then that's when you would need a dinghy to push you off - and it may need to be more than 4hp - cos the tendency is for the bow, already moving downwind - to get caught and (as well as being turned doenwind with the turn into the berth) whams into the downwind neighbour.

Other dodginess occurs when all alone on an emptyish quay doing a stern-to mooring - cos at no point can you rest against a boat when you are in the slot. Best here is to come alongside, then sort it out later. You cannot hold a boat in any wind in an exposed position stern-to and hope to get all the lines sorted before it drifts off, unless the wind is perpendicular to the quay.

Incidentally, a dinghy is also good thing if you are caught with no wind and dead engine. Lash the dinghy fore and aft positioned around the middle or just behind the middle of the large dead boat and it can drag you along at 4ish knots.

Max wind strength? Yiou need to keep a sharp eye on the wind indicator as in a marina thye winds are flukey - that's what they are for of course, to protect against the winds and waves. Bit difficult to givbe a limit as some parts of a marina in an F6 outside can be almost dead calm. Doing very much with a boat in more than a real actual f7 across an open marina needs some speed and practise, and you might feel that it would be better to have crew onboard witg fenders in such a wind, rather than pratting about with flyaway dinghies that might do something but might not. Dump the thing on another pontoon, and sort it out later. Note that marina staff will often help move boats later too.

So, no more sleepless nites i hope!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[walker]

Lovely, thankyou - I think I'll save practising the dinghy option until I have got a full crew. No more sleepless nights about that problem then. But you know you said about the problems of stern to on an empty quay ... just kidding. But it is an interesting point - I had assumed from the time of year we are going that the emptiness of the harbours would be a benefit but you're right, with a cross wind crew would have to move pretty smartish to get a line ashore before we blow off. It's all very exciting!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[boatless]

tcm's quite right, just need to add - as you're coming backwards into the berth (I usually stand in front of the wheel looking backwards) keep an eye out for:-

a) Protruding rocks. Often just a metre one way or the other and you can put your rudder next to it, just don't want it on it!

b) Sewage outlets. I'm brilliant at finding these.

c) Street lights. Often good to put a line round. But never switched off when you want, and tend to be where all the moped kids hang out. Ditto park type benches.

Lastly, don't go over about 3 knots in reverse, it'll likely do damage to the steering system (because of the dynamic balance of the blade area with ref to the shaft), and if the helm does fly over, it can break the stops - and you don't half turn quick!

<hr width=100% size=1>my opinion is complete rubbish, probably.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by boatless on 14/06/2004 17:07 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Dave99]

I have two main tips when coming along side -dont try and aim the whole boat, aim the shrouds - it makes a huge difference.

Secondly, go for an easy berth and if you are coming out of a tight spot then warp the boat out rather than try and turn in a small space.

Make sure you use prop wash etc to your advantage

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[whisper]

Don't panic, don't panic/forums/images/icons/smile.gif. I've chartered a no. of Bav 41s and 42s recently and they all seem to go where you aim them, even in reverse, once you've got a bit of way on.
Just practice as previously described and you'll be fine.
Enjoy yourself.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Becky]

I used to sail single-handed a lot, and although Solitaire was only 27 feet she could still do some damage out of control. But if you go slowly and give little bursts of ahead to keep way on, and amake sure you are well fendered, you shouldn't have much difficulty. But there is nothing wrong in coming alongside another boat instead of your pontoon/finger pier provided your fenders are properly placed. I often did when the wind blew me off my finger pier. Resting alongside another boat gives you time to get shore lines placed correctly, and then you can pull your boat back into her place. You will find that a with little forethought (that you are obviously doing) you will anticipate the problems before they materialise. Good luck!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[walker]

Don't panic? Don't panic?

When I posted my enquiry I was only worried about a bit of wind. I won't worry about that anymore because I'll be too busy worrying about sewage outlets, streetlamps, benches, submerged rocks, incommunicado dinghies, empty quaysides...

Seriously though, all this advice is really appreciated and I'm not really worried as such - just like thinking about sailing and how I will deal with situations.

I'm going to read the new issues of the mags now - they're always full of catasrophic possilities to think about!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Also,

There is nothing more tedious than cleaning the 'bruises' off the side of a boat where a tender has nudged and bumped...

But I can't agree with the others more.... its not as hard as it looks.... and sometimes I think people try to make it seem like a major hurdle to let everyone know how clever they are when they do it themselves...

Just take a minute or two prior to coming alongside to properly think about the best way to go alongside given wind, tide, obstructions etc, and then take it real slow... don't be ashamed of backing out and coming round again... we ALL do it occasionally... good seamanship is about control, patience and thought and not sticking the boat right on the quay/jetty/pontoon from 6 kts to dead in 30 feet... thats left to the idiots who will eventually damage their, or someone elses boat...

Just find a nice friendly pontoon with lots of space and have a few practices... that way when you eventually end up in a tighter space it'll all be real easy, and you'll wonder what you ever worried about

Have fun!


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[boatless]

Noooohh, don't make it sound too easy, it's about the only skill I've got!

<hr width=100% size=1>my opinion is complete rubbish, probably.

 

[Metabarca]

In Croatia, you'll find that most of the marinas will have one of their staff coming out to help when you arrive (and telling you where to go). Generally, moor stern to. Have one of your crew ready with a boathook to grab the line this chap will indicate, running at 90° from the pontoon and which is attached to a large warp below water level. This needs heaving up (gloves) and tied off forward.
If you're mooring against a quayside (stone, built in Venetian or Austrian times), there MAY be little water (but your pilot book will warn of that), or there MAY be a small sill below water level (said quayside not having been built for yachts). It may too be used by the ferry so you'll have to move! (Check with a local).
I don't think bora is an issue in Split marina (but can't be 100% sure) - certainly it isn't in some others further north. I'll be there in a 3 weeks' time and if I remember I'll find out what they say in the marina.
But above all, don't worry and enjoy! You have every probability of great sailing, warm sun and water and every bay to yourself!

<hr width=100% size=1>Adriatic links here: <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html>http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html</A>

 

[Melody]

A couple of additions to all the good advice you've already received -

1. In a marina you may use a lazy line rather than an anchor - if you can get that on board quickly your bow won't be blown off. Use a boathook to get hold of it. There is usually a thin line which has to be taken forward, then you pull this until you get the thick rope which you fasten on deck. The quicker this is done the easier you'll find it as you then don't have to worry about the bow.

2. Have your stern lines all ready when you come in , and remember to put the windward stern line on first. Again, speed will help, as once this is secured or being held, you can stop worrying about being blown into the boat next to you.

3. Use a winch to wind in the stern lines or lazy line if you need to adjust your position. Being strong shouldn't be an issue.

<hr width=100% size=1>Melody McKay Burton
Yacht Valentine, Greece