Difficulties Converting from UK Calor to German Butane

alisdair4

alisdair4

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Our last cylinder of Calor Gas is almost done, and we have another summer in Germany. So, bit the bullet and bought a 5 Kg cylinder of Butane, matching regulator and flexible hose to connect to the fixed installation.
The existing cooker is a Plastimo Neptune 2000 , which came with boat (so at least 6 years old, probably considerably older).
Today, duly connected the new gas and noted a much higher pressure through the rings than with the old Calor fitted. After a bit of messing about with regulator settings and so on, managed to remove most of the hair on my forearms!

The rings will work, the grill after coaxing, but the oven not at all.

At this point, after some encouragement from SWMBO, decided to go ashore for dinner!

Given the gas bottle, regulator and pigtail all match, my assumption is that the weakness in the new system must lie in the cooker.

I have read a huge amount of conflicting advice in the last hour, some of which mentions the need to change the jets in the cooker. Other advice is that "modern"( no definition) cookers will cope with both butane and propane at between 28 and 35 Bar.

Any thoughts on a cheap solution- we plan to return to the UK next year, so I don't want to buy a new cooker?
 
But you're not faced with butane/propane problems. I think the new regulator is not at the same pressure as your original one. Why not use your old regulator with the new gas bottle? I don't think it's a cooker problem.

ps We also have a Neptune 2000 on Calor butane, but it also works fine with CampingGaz.
 
Hoolie,

I'm not sure if the old regulator will fit- TBH, I just assumed it wouldn't. If it did, that may solve the problem.
In the short term, however, we are in Eckernfjorde on the Baltic, and the old regulator is in Hamburg....!

I'll try your suggestion when next I can unite regulator and new bottle.
 
As CCSCOTT suspects, you've probably either got a a propane regulator OR a faulty one (I suspect the latter). On some there is an adjustment, a vernier screw on top of the unit which is alleged to allow the use of either propane or butane (a convenience for stockists I assume). The one I was sold exhausted an LPG bottle in 25% of the usual time and produced a blowtorch like flame. It was ditched in preference for a butane-only regulator. I'm surprised that, in your eagerness, you didn't carry out a check, using soapy water, to ensure there were no leaks - a sure sign of a non-operative regulator is the presence of leaks.
 
charles_reed said:
As CCSCOTT suspects, you've probably either got a a propane regulator OR a faulty one (I suspect the latter). On some there is an adjustment, a vernier screw on top of the unit which is alleged to allow the use of either propane or butane (a convenience for stockists I assume). The one I was sold exhausted an LPG bottle in 25% of the usual time and produced a blowtorch like flame. It was ditched in preference for a butane-only regulator. I'm surprised that, in your eagerness, you didn't carry out a check, using soapy water, to ensure there were no leaks - a sure sign of a non-operative regulator is the presence of leaks.
Click to expand...

I have checked that the new cylinder IS propane, not butane. Apropos of "eagerness", I'm not sure what you are getting at. However, I always check for a gas leak using soapy water when changing a bottle, and did so. The regulator matches the bottle, ie, both were supplied from the same stockist simultaneously.
I can vouch for your description of a "blowtorch like flame" however!
 
alisdair4 said:
I have checked that the new cylinder IS propane, not butane. Apropos of "eagerness", I'm not sure what you are getting at. However, I always check for a gas leak using soapy water when changing a bottle, and did so. The regulator matches the bottle, ie, both were supplied from the same stockist simultaneously.
I can vouch for your description of a "blowtorch like flame" however!
Click to expand...

Your Neptune cooker, without any conversion should run quite happily on propane - the propane pressure is higher so it will appear rather like a cooker ashore, a much stronger flame and quicker lighting.
Unfortunately you can get high and low-pressure regulators for both propane and for butane (high-pressure are used for cutting torches). The high-pressure regulator is just a needle-valve and, as propane is @ x10 the pressure of butane will easily reproduce the problems you're experiencing.
The propane regulator should be red, butane blue (in any case non-interchangeable as the threads are quite different). If it has large flat container (the diaphragm) after the tap, it's a low-pressure one. With propane at high-pressure you should be using orange hose - the others are inadequate. Mostly you can only obtain the orange hose, which should be completely renewed every 5 years. So if no diaphragm, wrong regulator, if you have one with a diaphragm and a blowtorch like flame the regulator is faulty. In most country areas the local ironmongers will have spare regulators in stock, cost about €6. I'd suggest you hunt one out in the nearest market town and try again.
If using high-pressure appliances you definitely need different jets for butane and propane (32bar for one 320 bar for the latter). Nearly all LPG bottles are filled with a mix of the two, the blue (butane) bottles @ <20% of propane.
 
Check the data badge that should be on your new regulator (or stamped on it), for propane it should have an outlet pressure stated as 37mbar there is a chance you may have been supplied with the wrong regulator, some EU states like to run at 50 mbar and that would be too much for your cooker.
 
charles_reed said:
Your Neptune cooker, without any conversion should run quite happily on propane - the propane pressure is higher so it will appear rather like a cooker ashore, a much stronger flame and quicker lighting.
Unfortunately you can get high and low-pressure regulators for both propane and for butane (high-pressure are used for cutting torches). The high-pressure regulator is just a needle-valve and, as propane is @ x10 the pressure of butane will easily reproduce the problems you're experiencing.
The propane regulator should be red, butane blue (in any case non-interchangeable as the threads are quite different). If it has large flat container (the diaphragm) after the tap, it's a low-pressure one. With propane at high-pressure you should be using orange hose - the others are inadequate. Mostly you can only obtain the orange hose, which should be completely renewed every 5 years. So if no diaphragm, wrong regulator, if you have one with a diaphragm and a blowtorch like flame the regulator is faulty. In most country areas the local ironmongers will have spare regulators in stock, cost about €6. I'd suggest you hunt one out in the nearest market town and try again.
If using high-pressure appliances you definitely need different jets for butane and propane (32bar for one 320 bar for the latter). Nearly all LPG bottles are filled with a mix of the two, the blue (butane) bottles @ <20% of propane.
Click to expand...

Hi Charles
you can't use the colour to identify the gas type for the regulator especially in EU as I have examples of silver, grey, green, yellow and white and some will work on both Propane and Butane. always check the data badge or stamping for max inlet and outlet pressures, (sometimes in the instruction leaflet).
All regulators, high pressure (about 1 bar outlet) or low pressure (about 28 to 37 mbar outlet) will have a diaphragm.
 
saltylegs said:
Hi Charles
you can't use the colour to identify the gas type for the regulator especially in EU as I have examples of silver, grey, green, yellow and white and some will work on both Propane and Butane. always check the data badge or stamping for max inlet and outlet pressures, (sometimes in the instruction leaflet).
All regulators, high pressure (about 1 bar outlet) or low pressure (about 28 to 37 mbar outlet) will have a diaphragm.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought until I looked here
http://www.gasproducts.co.uk/acatalog/Gas_Regulators.html
 
The regulators at "Hamilton Gas Products" are speced for UK and Ireland and the colour is only for quick reference they can be ordered from the makers in just about any colour you want and they do vary widely on mainland EU where the OP is at present.

I know this because I was doing quality control on the new stock of regulators bought in by "Hamilton Gas Products" earlier this year, I work for Calor N.I. and Calor owns 50% of "Hamilton Gas Products".
 
The issue would appear to be wrong regulator! I had asked in Praktika ( German equivalent of B&Q) " does this regulator and pigtail fit this bottle"? Answer "ja". Foolishly didn't tell them what I was connecting it to, so on closer review have a regulator which delivers between 1 and 4 bar!
Sobering experience, seeing your normally quiet cooker transformed into an fire-breathing monster- but it could have been much worse!

So thanks for the confirmation that the cooker will be Ok.

(FWIW, have spent the day kicking myself and chanting "RTFM, RTFM" to myself......)
 
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