Differences

[epervier]

I really need to air this, I've just been on scuttlebut, never bothered before,but this is a thread about prosecuting pwc owners for alleged speeding with amateur video footage from a member of the public while aboard his boat at rest,moored in fact.

Whilst not a huge fan of either yotties or jetskis I like to think that my views are conservative, live and let live and to have a moan about someone else is very british, and part of our culture.

however, I was somewhat stunned and shocked at the responses this post attracted,from almost, hanging's too good for them, to it's downright dangerous, almost everything else in between.

Do they really believe, that, a, when moored the rest of the world should stop, and b, when sailing no one else should be out there?

the one piece that really got to me was this,

"I hope they find and prosecute the idiots very publicly, sending a clear message to other owners of PWC that may be equally inconsiderate. I'm not a PWC hater as I'm sure they are a lot of fun"

I can hear this being spoken with a Prince Philip accent, pompous ass.

I've probably spent too much time at the boat show this week, listening to the hooray henry's talking about the time the commodore of the club actually took the time to say hello, or when Tarquin managed to smack the ol' girl into the pontoon with the spinnaker still up, haugh haugh haugh.

 

[Elessar]

There are a few on SB that feel the basic skill of hauling a sail gives them moral superiority over other water users. They are are fairly vocal minority and yes they are the ones that think, as you put it, that "a, when moored the rest of the world should stop, and b, when sailing no one else should be out there".

I've just come back from Cherbourg on the Scuttlebut cruise. It was great to be in the company of proper sailors, happy to take the mick out of me for being a powerboater but only in a light-hearted, friendly way. That is how it should be.

I totally agree with your observations about the extreme views in the PWC post but do be careful that this post doesn't drift down the "them and us" route. Why not reply to the post instead of posting your criticism of it here? Just by being here it sort of says "you'll never guess what those bloody yotties are up to now". We don't need that.

 

[sailorman]

I really need to air this, I've just been on scuttlebutt, never bothered before,but this is a thread about prosecuting pwc owners for alleged speeding with amateur video footage from a member of the public while aboard his boat at rest,moored in fact.

Whilst not a huge fan of either yotties or jet skis I like to think that my views are conservative, live and let live and to have a moan about someone else is very British, and part of our culture.

however, I was somewhat stunned and shocked at the responses this post attracted,from almost, hanging's too good for them, to it's downright dangerous, almost everything else in between.

Do they really believe, that, a, when moored the rest of the world should stop, and b, when sailing no one else should be out there?

the one piece that really got to me was this,

"I hope they find and prosecute the idiots very publicly, sending a clear message to other owners of PWC that may be equally inconsiderate. I'm not a PWC hater as I'm sure they are a lot of fun"

I can hear this being spoken with a Prince Philip accent, pompous ass.

I've probably spent too much time at the boat show this week, listening to the hooray henry's talking about the time the commodore of the club actually took the time to say hello, or when Tarquin managed to smack the ol' girl into the pontoon with the spinnaker still up, haugh haugh haugh.

IF YOU actually knew West Mersea you would appreciate that the moorings are very close together & a speeding vessel would not be able to react quickly enough if a dinghy / tender was proceeding between those moorings.
very few on the East Coast are HHs.

 

[nonitoo]

It was great to be in the company of proper sailors, happy to take the mick out of me for being a powerboater but only in a light-hearted, friendly way. That is how it should be.

Most of the rest of my pontoon are great, a mixture of MoBo and Yotties, where it can be difficult to get anything done due to the temptation to chat. Good natured badinage is the order of the day.

Compare this to some of our experiences up the non-tidal Thames this summer where it was quite common to be totally ignored in a lock by the 'character' in the boat next to you if his boat was bigger/wooden/old/blue ensign and/or he wore straw hat/striped blazer/collar & tie and, apparently, the biggest difference of all, whether you stowed your fenders between locks or not.

We all inhabit a broad church and, having a bit of experience, I no longer bother with those who manufacture reasons to find themselves different/superior to others.

Tom

 

[Doghousekeeper]

IF YOU actually knew West Mersea you would appreciate that the moorings are very close together & a speeding vessel would not be able to react quickly enough if a dinghy / tender was proceeding between those moorings.
very few on the East Coast are HHs.

In the right hands (and I suspect that doesn't include those featured in the video) a PWC is just about the most manoeuvrable craft at speed. I don't think that excuses bad behaviour, by the way, but there is a major difference between bad manners and dangerous driving. Was it dangerous in the circumstances being discussed "over there"? Well, perhaps it was, because of the limited visibility around the boats and the possibility of someone appearing in a tender or something like that. Was it bad manners? Certainly, of course it was - but not because of the argument about wash. What wash? A good breeze would move the boats more than that. It was definitely bad manners because of the noise and the failure to understand that their behaviour would be considered reckless and annoy the people they have to share the water with. Completely lacking in consideration for others.

I've just realised that I agreed with Elessar when I read the post about duplicating the discussion and now I'm guilty of that too. Sorry. I'll stop here

 

[Cliveshep]

Epervier - hacking through moorings at speed is bloody dangerous because that is where everyone can reasonably expect calmer waters to start/end their cruise and leave their craft safe and sheltered. Folk will be boarding/disembarking from dinghys etc, perhaps mum passing the baby down to dad, or struggling to lift and mount/dismount outboards etc and the wash from passing idiots can cause many problems with the potential to be very serious indeed, and life threatening in certain circumstances the speeding idiots could not possible foresee. That's why there are controls for speed and wash and why those who put others at risk with a "sod you I'm having fun" attitude should be prosecuted. PWC's may not make much wash but having one run into you just as you push off a dinghy is not going to be fun, and speeding runabouts make big wash as well as having less chance to avoid you.

Moving at speed and creating wash is just plain inconsiderate in a harbour anchorage or mooring area at the very least. I've lost my precariously balanced dinner overboard completed with plate and cutlery because of some idiot who wanted to tear through bouncing everything in his wake just as I was moving it and getting settled. There was no danger to me but if I'd caught him at the time I'd be behind bars still.

Getting the point?

 

[Ianj68]

Whilst I find some of the comments made over the other side a little extreme I would have to agree with the consensus that this was a pretty stupid and dangerous act. I speak from a bit of experience here. Last season I hopped into the water just off studland beach to check my anodes and to give the bottom a bit of a clean. As per usual on a sunny Sunday afternoon the bay was packed. Anyway, a complete clown on a PWC came racing through the moored boats very close to us, at which time I was under the water near the bow. My boat rose up over his wake and dropped cracking me on the head causing me to feel out of it to the point of passing out and resulting in a nasty gash on my head. Luckily my brother was in the water with me and was able to come to the rescue.

I recall that during my PB Level 2 course it was made very clear that the dangers of generating wake amongst moored boats could have serious consequences, so maybe it's a case of ignorance and them being blissfully unaware of the potential danger that they were causing.

 

[NealB]

I really need to air this, I've just been on scuttlebut, never bothered before,but this is a thread about prosecuting pwc owners for alleged speeding with amateur video footage from a member of the public while aboard his boat at rest,moored in fact.

Whilst not a huge fan of either yotties or jetskis I like to think that my views are conservative, live and let live and to have a moan about someone else is very british, and part of our culture.

however, I was somewhat stunned and shocked at the responses this post attracted,from almost, hanging's too good for them, to it's downright dangerous, almost everything else in between.

Do they really believe, that, a, when moored the rest of the world should stop, and b, when sailing no one else should be out there?

the one piece that really got to me was this,

"I hope they find and prosecute the idiots very publicly, sending a clear message to other owners of PWC that may be equally inconsiderate. I'm not a PWC hater as I'm sure they are a lot of fun"

I can hear this being spoken with a Prince Philip accent, pompous ass.

I've probably spent too much time at the boat show this week, listening to the hooray henry's talking about the time the commodore of the club actually took the time to say hello, or when Tarquin managed to smack the ol' girl into the pontoon with the spinnaker still up, haugh haugh haugh.

I have both a sailing boat and a motor boat (and a baby RIB), and this type of 'us and them' attitude appals me.

Your post speaks volumes about your own prejudices and possible insecurities.

Buzzing through busy moorings in the way shown was dangreous and inconsiderate - that's the important message, regardless of the accent in which it might be said (mine, incidentally, could be described as esturial Essex, if that's important).

 

[Observer]

My take on this - also posted on the S/B thread.

I have some sympathy with small boats for whom an 8kts speed limit is in that difficult area above displacement speed but below minimum planing speed. I have a 6m RIB (but no reliable speed meter unless I have h/held GPS mounted and powered up) and, in a quiet area of a speed restricted harbour, which typically has a speed limit of 8 or 10 kts, out of sight of officialdom and well away from moored boats, I will often try to balance the boat speed to be 'just on the plane'. The resulting speed is ~10-12 kts (maybe more or less over ground depending on stream/tide). The alternative is to plough along at 4-5kts, because at 8 kts I would be simply burning loads of fuel for not much advantage, the boat riding bow high and not feeling comfortable or settled.

However, in amongst the moorings or with lots of traffic around, it's simply absolutely necessary to slow down to 4-5kts in order to reduce wash and avoid upsetting other users.

So I acknowledge that I do from time to time exceed the speed limit (as I do when driving on the road) but, I believe, I pay due regard to the reasons for the existence of the limit.

There is, to my mind, a qualitative distinction to be drawn between that and (as appears to be the case from dylan's video) tearing through a narrow channel, probably in shallow water, at double the speed limit or more and paying little or no regard to the convenience, comfort or safety of other water users.

 

[epervier]

I have both a sailing boat and a motor boat, and this type of 'us and them' attitude appals me.

Your post speaks volumes about your own prejudices and possible insecurities.

Buzzing through busy moorings in the way shown was dangreous and inconsiderate - that's the important message, regardless of the accent in which it might be said (mine, incidentally, might be described as esturial Essex, if that's important).

I didn't start off to make this a "them and us" post, but that's how the readers have perceived it,

It was meant to show the different attitudes about speed,

A similar thing happened at Swanage a few weeks ago when a lot of boats went to watch the red arrow display,very tightly packed into a relatively small area in front of the beach with a 5kt limit,

there were 2 or 3 jetskis buzzing in and out of the anchored boats most of the afternoon, yes they were annoying and arguably potentially dangerous, but I didn't see anyone get bent out of shape about them. it happens, get over it.

My prejudices, yachtsmen trying to tack up beaulieu river, when common sense says start the engine and go in a straight line,

My insecurity, as you put it, is, that there is enough surveillance out there now, possibly too much, that I don't need vigilante's with their cameras doing the HM job. putting it on youtube is one thing, then trying to use it as evidence in trial by internet is appalling.


one thing more, my accent, 'eavy 'ampshire.

 

[sir jasper]

"there were 2 or 3 jetskis buzzing in and out of the anchored boats most of the afternoon, yes they were annoying and arguably potentially dangerous, but I didn't see anyone get bent out of shape about them. it happens, get over it."

I for one cant get “over it”. Twice this year, on the rare occasion that the sun has shone, I’ve had to prevent my friends (very disappointed) kids from swimming off the back of our boat because jetskis were threading their way through the anchored craft at dangerous speeds.

 

[AdeOlly]

there were 2 or 3 jetskis buzzing in and out of the anchored boats most of the afternoon, yes they were annoying and arguably potentially dangerous, but I didn't see anyone get bent out of shape about them. it happens, get over it.

I'm a mobo'er through and through, but a proportion of PWCs and also waterskiers are bloody dangerous show offs. I don't think there's really any 'potentially dangerous' about it, sooner or later somebody is going to be killed as a result of their speeding through anchored boats. I find these antics especially annoying when there's umpteen square miles of empty water immediately adjacent, as is often the case in Osborne and Alum Bays. It's all very well saying get over it, but you wouldn't say that if you had small kids in the water or were swimming yourself.

 

[Observer]

No excuse for jet skis but you should remember that water skiers need/prefer flat water. So I can understand a situation of a sheltered bay with boats at anchor and water skiers wanting to make the most of the flat water, which is where the boats are anchored. However, no reason why the water ski-ing route shouldn't go round the outside rather than in between.

 

[epervier]

I'm a mobo'er through and through, but a proportion of PWCs and also waterskiers are bloody dangerous show offs. I don't think there's really any 'potentially dangerous' about it, sooner or later somebody is going to be killed as a result of their speeding through anchored boats. I find these antics especially annoying when there's umpteen square miles of empty water immediately adjacent, as is often the case in Osborne and Alum Bays. It's all very well saying get over it, but you wouldn't say that if you had small kids in the water or were swimming yourself.

If you look at your charts part of osborne bay IS a designated waterskiing area, to my knowledge has been for at least the last 4 decades.

maybe it's the boaters own fault for anchoring in/near a skiing area, for calm flat water,

trying to outlaw one group of users for the benefit of others is a very slippery slope, which I do not want party to, when legislation comes into being, (I say when not if), it will be for the detriment of all water users.

 

[AdeOlly]

If you look at your charts part of osborne bay IS a designated waterskiing area, to my knowledge has been for at least the last 4 decades.

maybe it's the boaters own fault for anchoring in/near a skiing area, for calm flat water,

trying to outlaw one group of users for the benefit of others is a very slippery slope, which I do not want party to, when legislation comes into being, (I say when not if), it will be for the detriment of all water users.

Actually if you look at your chart you will see that the waterski area is EAST of Osborne Bay by half a mile plus over Peel Bank way, and is buoyed; it does not extend into what most peeps would call Osborne Bay itself and is not where 99% of boats anchor up.

Most waterskiers do use that buoyed area and I have no problem with that, but there's all too often those which decide its much more fun to waterski through the anchored boats and mess up the afternoon for 50 or 100 people who don't appreciate the wash from the ski boat every few minutes and endangering those who swim. Whatever the legalities of it, it's downright selfish and stupid behaviour, especially when there is a nearby ski area. Why can't the stay in it???????

 

[colingr]

According to Southampton VTS waterskiing is not allowed anywhere except up the Test.

Clicky

 

[jhr]

According to Southampton VTS waterskiing is not allowed anywhere except up the Test.

Clicky

Yes, but I think the Osborne bay area comes under the jurisdiction of QHMP?

 

[AdeOlly]

According to Southampton VTS waterskiing is not allowed anywhere except up the Test.

Clicky

It's covered by QHM Portsmouth rather than Southampton Clicky

 

[Nick_H]

Twice this year, on the rare occasion that the sun has shone, I’ve had to prevent my friends (very disappointed) kids from swimming off the back of our boat because jetskis were threading their way through the anchored craft at dangerous speeds.

Oh come on, are you seriously suggesting their driving was so dangerous that you daren't even go in the water?

 

[oceanfroggie]

Some PWCers are scum. This behaviour is so Darwin

PWC Loons scaring folks in tenders and kids - criminal scum bags

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