Diesel engine oil analysis results help/advice needed please

Sneds

Sneds

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 Feb 2007
Messages
4,890
Location
Bristol
Visit site
Hope some people may be able to offer some advice/help?

The following is the result of the oil analysis report carried out on a 2001,
535 hours Yamaha ME421 6 cylinder turbo diesel.

What does it all mean? Are we talking serious stuff here? Anyone know how much it would cost to rebuild this engine?
I have been told it is premature wear but a mechanic friend told me these engines run for ever!
Should it stop me buying the boat? The vendor has offered a reduction in price, as yet unknown, how much should I ask for?
Prior to this report the surveyor said the engine seems as sweet as a nut, starts easilly and pops the boat, a Sealine 260, up onto the plane with little effort.
All comments gratefully recieved and thanks in advance.

Cheers

Iain /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif


Sample No. P071690-001 Report Date: 12/04/2007 Unit ID
Description St Engine
Customer Mr. Simon May Make ME420 S/line
Boatcare Yacht Services Model Yanmar
120-121 Saltmakers House
Hamble Point Marina
Hamble Oil in Use 20w/40
SO31 4NB

IMMEDIATE ACTION****IMMEDIATE ACTION****IMMEDIATE ACTION

SYMPTOMS: Note levels of: Sodium, Iron, Aluminium and Copper.
DIAGNOSIS: Possible coolant leak into lube oil system. Indication of component wear,
predominantly piston/bore wear.
ACTION: Engine examination recommended. Change oil.
Date Sampled 03/04/2007
Date Received 05/04/2007
Date Tested 11/04/2007
Unit Life
Oil Life (hrs) 100

STATUS CRITICAL

PHYSICAL PROPERTIES
Viscosity @ 40°C cSt 95.3
Water Content %wt 0.0
Total Insoluble Matter %wt 1.8

SPECTROCHEMICAL ANALYSIS

Iron ppm 117 *
Chromium ppm 7
Aluminium ppm 96 *
Molybdenum ppm 7
Copper ppm 47 *
Lead ppm 4
Tin ppm 3
Nickel ppm 2
Silicon ppm 18
Sodium ppm 727 *
Boron ppm 12
Vanadium ppm 0
Calcium ppm 2715
Phosphorus ppm 1116
Zinc ppm 1385
Magnesium ppm 172
Barium ppm 0
 
hmm, while being no expert.... those figures are worrying.

From what I gather, different motors have differing typical levels with regular changes- when was the last change ? did the guy use any additives on top?

Here's a typical nice result for a truck diesel by comparison.


Certainly the flagged levels are high - but err, that's what you had the test done for- to find out. Engines can sometimes sound & run really nicely, despite huge internal wear - again, that's why to test.


The analysis company have told you what they think, & unless the oil wasn't changed for blimmin ages, you should be worried, yes., tho of course not changed for ages is a worry too.


a coolant leak can account for the sodium, but then err why no water in the oil?



Std waffle from testing co's is that this is a one-time result & ideally you'd change the oil, run it plenty, then test again for a known time-vs levels result, but tricky when buying a boat.
 
One has to be careful with lube oil reports as there are other factors to take in to account in order to make a good judgment. It would be nice to see a report on he clean oil as the additive readings also appear high.

It is important when taking a sample that it is representative of the engine and so important how the sample is taken and from where on the engine.

The sample should not be obtained by pumping a quantity out of the sump as the heavier metal particles will have sunk and so oil taken from the lower sump will give wrong readings. also beware of taking samples from filters.

The sample should be taken with the engine running and from a source where there is good circulation.

It is possible that the engines have not been properly flushed at previous oil changes and so what you are seeing is an accumulation of deposits built up over 500 hours. This may account for the high additive count.

If you are worried get a good mechanic to check out the engines and take compression readings correctly as these oil samples may not be indicative of the true situation.


John
 
Hi don,t know a lot about diesels inparticular but any engine that has water in the oil usually spells. loads of money and headaches!!
Usuall cause of oil in water is the head gasket on its way out. On a petrol engine fairly easy to fix but very expensive on most diesels.
The wear present does not seem to tally with the low milage this engine has done?? As your friend says, these should go on for ever! Sounds like something is amiss or someone is telling porkeys over milage covered. This engine would only be cosidered broke in, at this milage and should not be having these kind of problems.
I would steer clear if I was you-Sorry.
Hope this helps
 
Firstly well done for having an oil analysis done. An oil analysis once saved me from a £35k mistake with a couple of Cat engines
It's important to relate the oil analysis to engine hours run since the last oil change as the contaminant level will obviously depend on how long the oil has been in the engine. Are you sure about the 100hrs period? Another point is when was the oil sample taken? Directly after the engine has been run for a period or was it a cold sample from the base of the sump? An oil sample should be taken after the engine has had a good workout. Even so, the levels of contamination are worrying
IMHO, if you really want to continue with this boat, maybe carry out another test and ensure the engine has been well run beforehand and then try to find out for sure how many hours have passed since the last oil change. If the sample shows the same level of contamination, then walk away. If the sample is better I still might be tempted to do a 3rd analysis for confirmation
If you do have to rebuild the engine, I reckon you could be in for a £15-20k bill. Something to bear in mind if/when negotiating any reduction?
 
The oil sample was taken, by my appointed surveyor, after a 20 minute run out. the 100hrs is from the vendor of the boat, who has carried out the servicing himself.
He has owned the boat for 18 mths.
Thinking about walking, but its a nice boat, heart/head??

Ferretti, nice craft!

The price agreed on the Sealine is, or was, £34k


Cheers
 
Re: Diesel engine oil analysis results help/advice needed please

Results high in solids but no water present suggests no coolant leak or possible very small one with water boiled off as engine heated up. However, postulate this as alternative scenario - "I'm selling my boat next year, oil change & service?Stuff it, let the next bloke do it." What do you then get? Old oil! The truth more likely could lie in the region of "the bloke bought the boat and NEVER serviced it" in which case you've got old oil and expected analysis results.

However, if it was me, I would take a sale price reduction, and buy the boat as a bargain, get the oil changed/flushed, plus filter, and enjoy the boat. As the amount of engine hours boats actually do is low by comparison with the expected life of even a severely abused angine, and as the engine is running "sweetly" you've only got possibly ambigious test results to go on! Have fun with it. My diesel is a 40 year old original Thorneycroft, god knows what abuse it has suffered in that period as it was an ex-hire boat. I had the head off last year, no discernable bore wear! It starts and runs perfectly and really that is all we ask of engines in boats - that they keep going!
 
Re: Diesel engine oil analysis results help/advice needed please

I tend to agree with Cliveshep, but I'd add another question for the seller.

Self-servicers fall into two categories in my opinion, those who do it religiously every 100 hours, and those who do it when they feel the weather is bad and theres a good discount on oil at Halfords.

The former tend to be very meticulous with the "logging" of oil changes and so on. So if you visit the boat again with the seller, I'd ask "Have you logged all the oil/filter changes in the engine log book?" and ask to see it. The only place to keep such a book would be on the boat so it will be there if it exists.

If they have done this, then they will be able to show you a written up log book which should tell you exactly how meticulous they were. If they say "nah, its easy as its every hundred hours" - then the two words "Caveat Emptor" come to mind.

Log books arent easy to produce retrospectively, mine covers the last 10 years and is full of facts and figures (and oil / filter changes) - but its obvious from a cursory glance that its 10 years old and not fabricated as a sales aid.
 
Re: Diesel engine oil analysis results help/advice needed please

Many thanks to all, my head is still in a spin!
"If in doubt walk away" ?

I'm erring on the side of caution, but would like to be able to strip the engine down and have a look inside, but that is adding more cost to a transaction that may not happen.
Think i'll go have a beer or two (my stag afternoon/evening today) and think about it some more.

Cheers

Iain
 
Head! That does'nt necessarily mean you walk away. I don't know whether the price is good for a boat of this type and age but, if it is, it might be worth persevering. Try to find out exactly when the oil was changed if at all. As I said maybe get another sample for confirmation. Maybe get an engineer to carry out a more detailed inspection. Only you can weigh up the extra expense of carrying on with this against the attraction of the boat but there's always another one out there
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top