Diesel containers (again!)

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anniebray

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We are planning a 12 month cruise & are thinking about :
1) Which containers are most suitable metal or plastic & what capacity ? Our boat is 29ft but has a large cockpit locker. Wouldn't want to store on our teak deck.
2) Fuel top up on passage. In settled conditions one has to be very careful to avoid spillage using a funnel (or at least I do !) but if conditions were rough I am contemplating a submersible 12v pump ( LVM market one which can be dropped into the fuel container) possibly directly plumbed into the main filler hose within the cockpit locker. How do experienced bluewater folk manage ?
 
I use 20 litre plastic containers - anything larger gets heavy! To transfer I use a big wide funnel and one of those cheapy squeezy plastic pumps. The filler on my boat is on the transom - not the best place, but container on cockpit seat and standing on bathing platform holding funnel works OK but would not want to do it in any sea!
 
Plastic containers don't rust but get strong ones, have a word with your local battery depot and see if you can scrounge the ones they have their acid delivered in.
For transferring to your tank, it's easiest to use a hand syphon pump available from motor accessory shops, cheap and has many uses.
 
Diesel containers

Do not buy the expensive red ones you can buy from chandleries. We bought 2 and one split along the seam and deposited 15 litres plus into the interior of our boat off Colombia. We had a jolly day baling diesel in temp of 30 c and the smell pervaded the boat for days. The tank was stored slightly at an angle but with nothing on top of it or anything that could have caused the split, just poor quality control I guess.
I have bought 2 more plastic ones but will keep them on deck from now on...better a stained teak deck that another disgusting episode. It ruined 2 good pieces of rope too.
 
I agree about the plastic containers, metal ones are not great aboard whereas the red marine plastic ones are nearly bomb-proof, very tough.

For transferring fuel I use one of the siphon pumps that has a concertina-like pump on the top. I have used it in quite boisterous conditions at sea, no problems at all. At every boat show there is a man selling another siphon type, with a valve in one end that only requires a few vertical thrusts to prime and away it goes. Have been tempted to buy one but always felt happy with the one I have and suspect that some diesel trapped in the valve end will always run out at the most inopportune moment.
 
I used a few of those "thin and tall" 20l containers and they all leaked to some extent or could not stand the compression when a few of them were put stowed next to each other, I then bought the fattish red ones (like height= twice the shortest width) and am very happy, they can be heaped one above the other with no problems


As for the refill, I made an additional hole+ plug on the top plate of the fuel tank (it is just under the chart table) in order to be able to refill below decks if it is too bumpy to refill from the deck filler hole; I never used it so far but it was something I often felt the need of in my previous boat, we'll see :smile:
 
I would suggest getting the containers first. Then use an outboard engine priming bulb and two lengths of flexible fuel hose, cut to length. Once running the fuel keeps syphoning until the can is empty.

ebo
 
The wiggley syphon pump is brilliant. Bit of practice and no drips. A funnel is desperate by comparison, especially in a lumpy seaway.
 
Red plastic tanks

Do not use the red plastic tall "marine" ones. I had one split along the weld for no reason...stored sensibly etc. below decks. Caused much distress when it released most of contents into bilge ruining ropes and leaving stench for days after messy clean up in 90F. Force 4 have apparently withdrawn them from their catalogue so I guess I was not the only one to complain
 
We carry 5 x 20lts in Polyprop jerries lashed to our bargeboard on deck.

With respect to decanting, we’ve always thought that you could be guaranteed that the day you need to decant, it’ll be pouring with rain or blowing, wet and rough – not the sort of time you want to be on deck tipping a jerry can into a funnel with the fuel filler open to the water.

So we rigged up the facility to be able to decant, or rather, siphon, directly into the tanks down below. However, the last thing you want is a diesel spillage below. And I hate a mouthful of diesel.

We found some rubber bungs, the sort of things you’d find in a school chemistry lab, of the right size to stick into the hole in the jerry can. We then drilled a couple of holes through a bung.

Through one hole goes a long length of tubing – this is our siphon which goes to about 3” from the bottom of the jerry. Through the other hole goes a shorter length – pushed so the end is just through the bung with 6” proud.

Open the jerry (you don’t need to open the 2nd breather hole) and stick the bung in. We then stick the other end of the siphon though the 1” dip-stick access of the tank.

Then simply blow hard down the 6’ length of pipe. This’ll force the diesel up the longer pipe and it’ll start siphoning – the blow pipe acting as the breather as the level goes down. Easy peasy.

A couple of other thoughts.

Don’t siphon more that 75-80% of the fuel out if you’re not using a filter. Otherwise you’ll risk sucking any **** or water in the bottom of the jerry into your main tank.

And get the jerry cans with big openings – not the ones with one big hole and a pissy little breather hole. Then you can also use the jerry as an emergency fuel tank itself.

We’ve drilled another couple of bungs and slipped fuel pipe though them (drill 2 holes in one bung so you have a breather). (Oh you have lots of spare time to fiddle when cruising).

If for some reason, our main tanks are contaminated and we can’t get clean fuel through we can open up a jerry, stick in the two bungs and connect the piping to a couple of spare taps on our inlet and return manifolds. Bleed the system and Hey presto, a jerry can fuel tank - enough to get you into the marina or onto the hook sonce you've sailed wherever you're going.
 
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Where are you thinking of cruising to? Don't forget that some of the EU states adjacent to UK don't like red diesel in cans - fines can ensue if caught.
 
We carry 6off 20L plastic containers. They are quite thick plastic, the sort that you see chemicals delivered in. We use pieces of supermarket bags as a gasket and they haven't leaked yet.
As far as getting it into your tanks we use a 4ft length of 3/4" pipe and syphon it. The easiest way we have found is to put one end of the tube in the tank filler hole and the other in the jerry can but right to the bottom. Then put your hand over the jerry can hole and pipe trying to seal as much of the air gaps as possible and then blow into the can. Its very easy, no spillages and definately no mouthfuls of diesel!!!
 
I have 34 x 20litre containers. Some are "ww2 jerrycan" shaped, others are squatter, red rectangular. The transfer siphon things from the dutch guy at the boat show is pretty good for me . I have a 1" dia one which empties the 20litre as fast as if i chuckd the fuel overboard, and a smaller diameter one for the red containers with narrower neck. The funnel is, as others say, desperate and hard work by comparison. The 12v transfer pumps is just another thing to go wrong, imho. You can siphon the stuff yourself of course- just shove a plstic tube into the can, finger block the other end and pull the tube out gently. Messy tho.

If you store the containers on deck (I don't) they seem to discolour badly in UV.

Smaller (eg 10l) cans are easier to handle and pack, of course.

I haven't ever stacked the cans - don't think they could take it.

I make sure the containrs aren't super-full on departure, else there'll be expansion and spillage.

Remember to keep one container back to allow yerself to bleed and engine/refill a filter etc...
 
Anyone considered bag tanks? I have ordered a 1000 litre one form the guys in australia, www.Turtlepac.com prices are good and I have heard nothing but good things about them, from guys that have used them in OZ and elsewhere. They do not seem to be made in UK or Europe, so maybe illegal? Used to be available form Vetus. Not now though.

The 1000 l one fits in my engine room, between the engine beds, just the right size. Was first thought of as a method of carrying enough fuel for an atlantic crossing, which now probably wont take place, however, it will do for loading cheap fuel in Tunisia! Cost me about 100 pounds, including shipping, folds up to very small. And can be semi permanently piped in.

I carry emergency water in 6 x 20 litre fuel cans, they are stronger than the water ones, live tied to the handrail wires and dont seem to suffer with UV degradation, like the water ones did.
 
A second permanent fuel tank, or larger tank would be preferable to cans. However, I always carry a 20 ltr as spare and sometimes two of them, but usually used to carry fuel to boat via dinghy and folding trolley ashore. Fuel transfer with the squeezy siphon pump as it gives good control. (Also have the larger bore tube with ball valve at can end but it lacks control iff I misjudge and tank gets overfull) In 30 plus years of cruising have never had to transfer fuel in difficult conditions - but this might be due to not liking motoring so only use the engine in flat calms. However, I prefer fuel to be in the main tank rather than in cans so decant as soon as there is room in the tank and conditions allow.
Lots of different approaches, you will find what suits you.
 
I can recommend the cheap plastic manual hand syphon pumps. £2.86 plus £1.60 postage off ebay for 2. £6.95 each in the chandlers. I have a tiny 22 litre stainless fixed fuel tank but with an extra 2 x 20 litre jerry cans and burning just a litre an hour at 5 knots gives me over 300nm range...
 
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2 x 20 litre squat red ones for us, plus a 5lt one as well. (On board when we got her and still here!). Plus a 300lt main fuel tank, which would get us a very long way when topped up.

We use a supapump for the transfer if we need to do one - which is the name of the pipe and valve things the dutch guy sells at the boat show. They work very well and controllably with no power required.

We have a separate one for transferring water as well.
 
Thanks for all advice !
Its quite clear that plastic containers 20L size are the most favoured so I'm searching !
For topping up in calm conditions some kind of syphon device ( pump or rattler )is fine but its clearly important to be able to deal with rough weather when on a long passage offshore. My fuelling cap is awkwardly placed on the side deck so I will try to devise an alternative method perhaps one of those suggested.
 
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