Diesel and tank advice

[Sailing newbie selsey]

As a new boat owner just after some advice on fuel, I purchased a boat in March and have spent the last few months getting her ready for the water. She is currently out of the water near Southampton. After servicing my engine, I am now looking at filling her tanks and adding a fuel set to the tank. My question is it better to use normal diesel from a garage or use red diesel? Also can you buy red diesel from a garage in fuel can to take to the boat? Anyone know of any garages selling red diesel in the Solent area?
i am keen to fill the tank and add the fuel set prior to launching, advice please guys. Oh my tank is 70L, also the boat has not been in the water for two years now, there is no fuel gauge is it best practice to pump out any old fuel and discard it before filling with new fuel.
thanks

 

[[70521]]

Ultimately your choice over white or red. I prefer white as the turn over at my local supermarket is much higher than many marinas. I caught the fuel bug after filling with red from a low turnover marina.

Personally, I'd use two year old fuel. My fuel gauge is 'unreliable', when its full its full when it is empty it is half full, soI keep records on engine hours and fuel used. The sound changes as you start filling the filler pipe. I always have a spare 10 lts in a jerry can just in case.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Ultimately your choice over white or red. I prefer white as the turn over at my local supermarket is much higher than many marinas. I caught the fuel bug after filling with red from a low turnover marina.

Personally, I'd use two year old fuel. My fuel gauge is 'unreliable', when its full its full when it is empty it is half fuel, soI keep records on engine hours and fuel used. The sound changes as you start filling the filler pipe. I always have a spare 10 lts in a jerry can just in case.

I'm with you on fuel gauges. When we replaced our old steel tank with a new plastic one, I just marked the levels & numbers on the side with an indelible pen even though we have provisions to hook up a gauge. Simply lifting the engine hatch in the floor of the wheelhouse tells me all I need to know. Besides doing a visible inspection of the engine before starting and occasionally while running is a good idea, IMHO.

 

[Sailing newbie selsey]

So on this advice, I think I will fill the remaining tank with supermarket white diesel and add a fuel set to the tank, for the sake of 50p a litre I would rather avoid fuel bug!

 

[PeterBoater]

Pedant mode on - red diesel from a filling station is not legal to use on a boat for propulsion; different tax rate. White road diesel (DERV) is likely to contain FAME (bio) and might increase the risk of diesel bug, as might filling station red. Marine red from a tidal marine outlet should be FAME-free but one of the experts on here maintains that it isn't always.

 

[RJJ]

Not that I am a great expert but here is what I would do.

Starting point: your existing tank. There is risk of bug in the tank after two years especially if the previous fill up wasn't dosed up in some way. As was explained to me on a 1 day diesel course, all diesel comes out of the ground with bugs in it. If it's left sitting around with a small amount of water or condensation, the bugs will throw a party. So you might reasonably decide to pump out a pint or two from the very bottom of the tank and let it settle (not a big task in itself); the findings then indicate if you need to drain/clean the tank.

Or you might just dose it up and wing it.

I like fuel set. It makes sense to me. In theory it not only kills the bugs (by emulsifying the water in the tank so they don't have an environment); it also encourages the break up of carcases and debris which can then be burned off. I haven't had any diesel blockages which of course proves little.

If using fuel set, from any pump that has reasonable throughput, into a sufficiently clean tank, you should expect to be fine. White/red/forecourt/marina is just a question of price and convenience. If in doubt about the quality of what you're buying, apparently you can ask to see their filters/water separator but I have never bothered.

 

[Gary Fox]

Pedant mode on - red diesel from a filling station is not legal to use on a boat for propulsion; different tax rate. White road diesel (DERV) is likely to contain FAME (bio) and might increase the risk of diesel bug, as might filling station red. Marine red from a tidal marine outlet should be FAME-free but one of the experts on here maintains that it isn't always.

Cowes Fuel Barge, used by both commercial and leisure vessels, most definitely sells red containing FAME, as I specifically checked.

 

[Gary Fox]

Has your tank got an inspection hatch? If so, to be 100% certain, remove the contents, clean out the inside of the tank and use fuel treatment henceforth. All tanks need inspection inside, many don't have hatches fitted.

 

[Sailing newbie selsey]

Has your tank got an inspection hatch? If so, to be 100% certain, remove the contents, clean out the inside of the tank and use fuel treatment henceforth. All tanks need inspection inside, many don't have hatches fitted.

Unfortunately not the boat was built in 1977, I think it’s still the original tank, which seems to have had the boat built around it! But no inspection hatch.

 

[pvb]

Some good advice so far. You don't know what state the tank is in. Many boats which have been sitting around before changing owners subsequently encounter fuel bug issues, often in a most inconvenient way!

So, at the very least, suck some fuel up from the bottom of the tank, let it settle overnight, and see how much crud is in it. If there's quite a bit, empty the tank, clean it if you have access, or at least flush it if you don't. Then refill with clean fuel and dose it. I'd suggest using Marine 16 rather than Fuel Set.

 

[Refueler]

Pedant mode on - red diesel from a filling station is not legal to use on a boat for propulsion; different tax rate. White road diesel (DERV) is likely to contain FAME (bio) and might increase the risk of diesel bug, as might filling station red. Marine red from a tidal marine outlet should be FAME-free but one of the experts on here maintains that it isn't always.

Red Diesel is purely diesel with a Red Dye and Yellow Marker. The Red is visual for Police etc. to see if used in vehicloes other than exempt. The Yellow marker is the chemical part to detect if anyone is foolish enough to try filtering out the red dye.

Marine Red is nothing special now - it used to be higher sulphur content but now generally it is similar to the white in the petrol station (but with red dye of course).

FAME is required addition to motor fuels by law ... the % is shown by the B number. Due to the inability of supply to meet the demands - the % level for recent years has not increased as scheduled.
Second there is every possibility that any fuel you get white or red HAS FAME ... in fact there are other Bio's but we'll stick with FAME as that's what you guys fixate on...
At under 5% - the supplier does not have to declare FAME / Bio content ... blame the EU for that one ! That is where I suggest the rubbish given out by Marina people comes from ... because its not declared - they say its zero.

Marine Gas Oil - a while back somebody mentioned this mistakenly believing it be to same grade - is a slightly heavier grade unsuitable for us in our marinised engines .. its for ships use and without Bio at this time.

To the OP ... don't waste your money .. go fill up with Red .. add your Fuel-Set or Startron or whatever and save your money.

I cannot get Red over here and tax exempt is only allowed for domestic heating or agricultural. I wish I could though !!

 

[Refueler]

Pedant mode on - red diesel from a filling station is not legal to use on a boat for propulsion; different tax rate. White road diesel (DERV) is likely to contain FAME (bio) and might increase the risk of diesel bug, as might filling station red. Marine red from a tidal marine outlet should be FAME-free but one of the experts on here maintains that it isn't always.

Red from a filling station was always legal; - IF you can prove to the attendant its for boat use ... in UK only of course !

But it will be difficult as they are told to prevent anyone except tractors and those with relevant docs to fill from the red pump.

 

[Refueler]

Its good idea to empty the tank and suck up the bottom to remove anything there.

No need to discard the old fuel .... let it stand .... decant of the clear and bright - leaving the crap behind.

Add some treatment to the Clear and bright ... you can let it settle again or just put back in tank, no need to get into all that Fuel Polishing malarky !!

 

[PeterBoater]

Red from a filling station was always legal; - IF you can prove to the attendant its for boat use ... in UK only of course !

But it will be difficult as they are told to prevent anyone except tractors and those with relevant docs to fill from the red pump.

Well, it's not legal now; as I wrote, there's a different tax rate for boat propulsion, ie the same rate as DERV. The 60/40 split is 60% at DERV rate and 40% at the heating/generating rate. Forecourt red is all at the heating/generating rate. The tax rate for forecourt red is going to change: Reform of red diesel and other rebated fuels entitlement - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

 

[Refueler]

Well, it's not legal now; as I wrote, there's a different tax rate for boat propulsion, ie the same rate as DERV. The 60/40 split is 60% at DERV rate and 40% at the heating/generating rate. Forecourt red is all at the heating/generating rate. The tax rate for forecourt red is going to change: Reform of red diesel and other rebated fuels entitlement - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

That may be case now ... I stopped being consultant to RATS / CA and other committees trying to save UK Red a while ago.
Only consultancy I now do is on GTL ... Gas to Liquid form of Diesel .. as that is even more misunderstood than Bio ..... I didn't think it was possible - but stupdity seems to not have boundaries !