Diesel additives needed or ?

[About Time]

I read another thread today here ... "Diesel Fuel Maint for Volvo D6, 370hp". Seems that the common understanding is that you need to top up with some additives if you have a diesel.

I have had 2 x KAD300 for a few years and have had no issues at all. No water in my pre-filters which is changed every year. When I put the boat up for the winter I just add in some diesel bug killer additive but once boat is in water I never add any additives.... Should I immediately change my procedure or ?

I have no smoke - engines are running smoothly. If however I am just in for later trouble I better start using additives now.

Thanks for input.

 

[Bandit]

I would use a good biocide such as Grotamar 82 every time you fill up to normal protection level.

Keep a watch-full eye on your diesel pre-filter (Racor or Separ) for water in the bowl and gunk or strands in the filter element.

If your boat either has a sump and a drain cock or stripping line pull out a couple of litres into a white plastic container or paint kettle and inspect for water and gunk each year.

 

[rafiki_]

I use Marine 16 when I fill with diesel. At £8 a pop from Force 4 it is a no brainer.

 

[Hurricane]

Having had an attack of the bug, I ALWAYS now treat every delivery of fuel.
I use Marine 16 and as Rafiki says, it is so cheap it is a no brainer.

IMHO, the UK is currently safer than the rest of Europe.
In the Med, we use standard ULSD road diesel which contains (up to) 7% bio mixed in.
The UK is still using the "good old" red diesel which contains a higher level of sulphur than ULSD
I believe that the sulphur keeps the bug at bay and that adding bio also helps it grow.
It seems to me that the EU are pushing for ULSD to be used everywhere without careful consideration.
The toffs at the EU don't seem to realise the dangerous the situation that they are pushing.
Generally speaking, people don't realise the implications and thus don't treat for the bug.

Anyway, to recap.
IMO, if you are boating in the UK you will probably get away with not treating your fuel but if the EU gets it way, you will end up in the same situation as us Med boaters where we have to use ULSD. IMO, in that case, it would be dangerous not to treat your fuel.

 

[Latestarter1]

Having had an attack of the bug, I ALWAYS now treat every delivery of fuel.
I use Marine 16 and as Rafiki says, it is so cheap it is a no brainer.

IMHO, the UK is currently safer than the rest of Europe.
In the Med, we use standard ULSD road diesel which contains (up to) 7% bio mixed in.
The UK is still using the "good old" red diesel which contains a higher level of sulphur than ULSD
I believe that the sulphur keeps the bug at bay and that adding bio also helps it grow.
It seems to me that the EU are pushing for ULSD to be used everywhere without careful consideration.
The toffs at the EU don't seem to realise the dangerous the situation that they are pushing.
Generally speaking, people don't realise the implications and thus don't treat for the bug.

Anyway, to recap.
IMO, if you are boating in the UK you will probably get away with not treating your fuel but if the EU gets it way, you will end up in the same situation as us Med boaters where we have to use ULSD. IMO, in that case, it would be dangerous not to treat your fuel.

Please please do not confuse the issues here.

We are getting Zero sulphur road fuel throughout Europe and like it or not we are in Europe and much of it is already finding its way into the marine market, ULSD was phased out years ago. U.K is not using good old high sulphur red.

Zero sulphur lubricity is a non issue, additives were nailed long ago.

With current low fuel prices fuel blenders are using absolute minimum of expensive bio additives, in practice nothing like 7%.

I agree, biological management of fuel is paramount, however nothing for us to become paranoid about.

 

[Sneds]

Marine 16 for me, overdose when the fuel's left in the boat ie over the winter when we don't use it often, a regular dose in the summer....................
Unless I'm going to burn the whole tank full in a week then I don't bother
The marine 16 people are very helpful if you contact them.

 

[Momac]

I have used marine 16 diesel fuel complete but thinking of a change if only to confuse the bugs.
http://www.marine16.co.uk/acatalog/Diesel-Fuel-Complete-500ml-60.html#SID=5
Think of fuel set.
http://liquideng.co.uk/collections/fuel-set-collection



.

 

[Bandit]

Fuel set says it "removes" water, it cant all it can do is dissolve it.

I don't want "dissolved" or emulsified water near my fuel pump and injectors I want it removed by stripping and filtration.

I had fuel bug in my boat when I bought it and I don't want to see it again on my boat.

 

[Momac]

Fuel set says it "removes" water, it cant all it can do is dissolve it.

I don't want "dissolved" or emulsified water near my fuel pump and injectors I want it removed by stripping and filtration.

I had fuel bug in my boat when I bought it and I don't want to see it again on my boat.

Marine 16 encourage any water to separate out - the water will presumably find its way to the bottom of the tank.
Fuel set absorbs any water into the diesel microscopically.
I must confess to being unsure which is best.
.

 

[superheat6k]

I read another thread today here ... "Diesel Fuel Maint for Volvo D6, 370hp". Seems that the common understanding is that you need to top up with some additives if you have a diesel.

I have had 2 x KAD300 for a few years and have had no issues at all. No water in my pre-filters which is changed every year. When I put the boat up for the winter I just add in some diesel bug killer additive but once boat is in water I never add any additives.... Should I immediately change my procedure or ?

I have no smoke - engines are running smoothly. If however I am just in for later trouble I better start using additives now.

Thanks for input.

If its clean and dry -and IMHO NO

 

[Baddox]

I dose a slug of two-stroke oil into the tank before filling up, and occasionally add Marine 16.

The marine 16 is supposed to keep the bugs down but I'm cautious about what it could do to any engine seals and gaskets if overdosed. The 2-stroke oil is there to add lubricity and keep things running smoothly.

 

[Piers]

Fuel set says it "removes" water, it cant all it can do is dissolve it.

I don't want "dissolved" or emulsified water near my fuel pump and injectors I want it removed by stripping and filtration.

Hi Bandit. I've been wondering about using Fuel Set to attack any water that may be in the tanks after 13 years, but having had chats with various people plus your reply here, I think I'll stay clear and simply dip the tanks and try some hoovering to see may be there. I'll just keep using Grotomar.

Thanks for the guidance.

 

[Latestarter1]

I dose a slug of two-stroke oil into the tank before filling up, and occasionally add Marine 16.

The marine 16 is supposed to keep the bugs down but I'm cautious about what it could do to any engine seals and gaskets if overdosed. The 2-stroke oil is there to add lubricity and keep things running smoothly.

Industry spends zillions on developing lubricity additives for zero sulphur fuel, yet recreational boaters still insist on adulterating their fuel with two two stroke lubricant............Nuts

 

[Hurricane]

Please please do not confuse the issues here.

We are getting Zero sulphur road fuel throughout Europe and like it or not we are in Europe and much of it is already finding its way into the marine market, ULSD was phased out years ago. U.K is not using good old high sulphur red.

Zero sulphur lubricity is a non issue, additives were nailed long ago.

With current low fuel prices fuel blenders are using absolute minimum of expensive bio additives, in practice nothing like 7%.

I agree, biological management of fuel is paramount, however nothing for us to become paranoid about.

My experience of the bug was in the Med where the fuel docks are using road diesel.
I thought that the UK was still using high sulphur fuel (with the red die) in the UK marina fueling stations.
But if you say not, then IMHO everyone should treat their fuel for bug.
It is just my view and my experiences.
I know that you have better information and experience - I'm just an amateur.

 

[sailorman]

I wonder how our near Continental neighbours have managed the past 15 yrs with white + Bio

 

[Latestarter1]

My experience of the bug was in the Med where the fuel docks are using road diesel.
I thought that the UK was still using high sulphur fuel (with the red die) in the UK marina fueling stations.
But if you say not, then IMHO everyone should treat their fuel for bug.
It is just my view and my experiences.
I know that you have better information and experience - I'm just an amateur.

Spot on, if we assume nobody is immune from microbiological contamination then we are safe.

There is a misconception that we run a separate agenda and slightly dirtier one from the rest of Europe in fact the opposite is the case.

Around 1998 Mr Blair wanted to score points off Europe so UK went low sulphur 500 ppm a year ahead of Europe for road fuel. Politicians did not consult industry properly and whilst refineries and additive producers were working on solution for 500 ppm and ULSD 50 ppm diesel a consistent and tolerant fuel supply was not in place before implementation.

The road transport industry was in some turmoil, Ford Transit and Mercedes Sprinter vans in particular suffered early life fuel pump failures before lubricity was nailed.

As to red diesel industrial/agricultural engines mandated use of 50ppm ULSD red diesel in preparation for Tier 3 emissions and by Tier 4 final, requirement was for 10pp Zero sulphur fuel.

Because road fuel and commercial fuels are now effectively the same, HMRC simply allowed refiners to dye road fuel for commercial use, however road fuel has mandated biofuel content causing marine industry as well as industrial/ag much ire. When Mike F comes back on line he will certainly give you chapter and verse on running low emission industrial engines!

The old 1000 ppm red diesel is now a thing of the past even now for the rail industry.

Point I wanted to make is that we are in Europe and occasionally run ahead of Europe (to our cost).

 

[rafiki_]

LS1, perhaps you can confirm, but I think diesel for inland waterway (and industrial) use has to be the same as road diesel, but coastal not so at the moment. This means that it is highly likely that diesel bought from inland marina's will be the road fuel 7% bio/FAME. Our (coastal) marina is claiming the same legal requirement as inland, but I'm not sure they are correct. However, I always dose with M16.

 

[TwoHooter]

An opportune thread for me. I have accepted an offer of a delivery of 2,000 litres of diesel to be delivered directly to my boat by tanker at a price which no marina can match - the supplier has put me on to a wharf which will accommodate me for a modest fee. I have Grotmar available to treat the diesel (and the supplier says the stuff is only 2% FAME) so I'm not worried about dieselbug even though it will take at least a year to burn it all. What does concern me is that I have no idea how to check that the specification of the diesel is right for the boat which has a Lugger (John Deere) main engine, a Northern Lights genset, and a Yanmar wing engine. I have bought oodles of red diesel for plant over the years and never gave the specification a thought because most of the time the plant was hired-in, but I now have a nice set of engines which I want to pamper. Does anyone know what specification I need to ask for?

 

[Latestarter1]

An opportune thread for me. I have accepted an offer of a delivery of 2,000 litres of diesel to be delivered directly to my boat by tanker at a price which no marina can match - the supplier has put me on to a wharf which will accommodate me for a modest fee. I have Grotmar available to treat the diesel (and the supplier says the stuff is only 2% FAME) so I'm not worried about dieselbug even though it will take at least a year to burn it all. What does concern me is that I have no idea how to check that the specification of the diesel is right for the boat which has a Lugger (John Deere) main engine, a Northern Lights genset, and a Yanmar wing engine. I have bought oodles of red diesel for plant over the years and never gave the specification a thought because most of the time the plant was hired-in, but I now have a nice set of engines which I want to pamper. Does anyone know what specification I need to ask for?

2% FAME is regarded as FAME free so your spec is correct. Most likely you will be getting zero sulfur fuel, basically to BSEN590. Simply ask supplier for spec sheet.

You need not be too anal about fuel for your engines as Nordhaven with reasonable level of filteration, older non common rail Deere, forget all the U.S. red neck BS about Deere durability, very decent motors but no magic about them, likewise your Yanmar and Shibura.

Everybody waffles on about treating their tanks without even thinking about the pointless treatment of tanks which are not full.


U.K is good place to bunker, for example Italy is poisonous as microbial contamination is rampant in suppliers tanks due to their design.

 

[Sneds]

Do we worry about the supermarket diesel we fill ours cars with?