Momac
Well-Known Member
No but the fuel in a road fuel station doesn't sit around for months in the forecourt tank and it is usually doesn't remain in the tank of the car for months or even a year.
Diesel additives needed or ?
- Thread starter About Time
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No but the fuel in a road fuel station doesn't sit around for months in the forecourt tank and it is usually doesn't remain in the tank of the car for months or even a year.
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
I am aware of diesel problems in the north east. I guess the cooler ambients generate more condensation in the bunkers, hence the bug!
Latestarter1
Well-Known Member
At the Marne Fuel Forum a few years back contributor from Tesco gave in gave presentation on the very significant problems supermarkets are suffering with forecourt tank contamination caused by FAME.
Suspect it is merely throughput which saves us. However Volvo had a problem with heavy trucks caused by contaminants obstructing their small diameter tank pick up, despite very high throughput. Solution was to increase diameter of stand pipe.
I occasionally work for company which maintains American motor-homes. Vehicles often stand for long periods resulting in contamination issues, I specify a two stage system with a large capacity spin on primary, fitters complain that old filters need to be removed with care as they are so heavy with contaminants. Proves that they are doing the job.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
i get better mileage from say bp shell esso ect, i havnt used sm fuels for 2 yrs
TwoHooter
Well-Known Member
Thanks Latestarter - very helpful, that's exactly what I needed.
@Sneds - I have never gone on to any supermarket forecourt since the disaster which one of the supermarkets suffered some years ago with sub-standard contaminated diesel. Probably mere superstition on my part but I always try to buy from high throughput Shell, BP or Texaco forecourts. I reckon the price tells you whether it's high throughput or not.
@Sneds - I have never gone on to any supermarket forecourt since the disaster which one of the supermarkets suffered some years ago with sub-standard contaminated diesel. Probably mere superstition on my part but I always try to buy from high throughput Shell, BP or Texaco forecourts. I reckon the price tells you whether it's high throughput or not.
Piers
Well-Known Member
That's interesting. I must admit to thinking that given the endless queues of cars waiting to fill at supermarket forecourts, that their throughput must be considerable. Is this not so?
Greg2
Well-Known Member
Interesting re supermarket fuel. The guy we have used for around 25+ years to service our cars advises against using it because it is sub-standard and will allow more wear and tear on the engine. The only exception is Waitrose because they have a deal with Shell apparently.
Piers
Well-Known Member
Hmmm. 'The thick plottens', as they say.
Markergi
New Member
I've never understood this argument, the supermarkets fill their road tankers from the same tanks as the companies you mention above. In a former life, I was involved in the industry and know that a lot of the petrol/diesel sold by the companies you mention above is not refined by them. For example, BP will regularly fill their road tankers at Esso in Fawley, Valero in Pembroke etc., they will also buy full loads of petrol / gas oil on the spot market, usually on a tanker (ship) already on route to Rotterdam or somewhere else and send it to one of their distribution points or refineries when stocks are low. Once a tank is on grade at the refinery, the fuel is delivered to all of the road tankers in the queue. The queue will usually be made up of local independents, Tesco, Morrisons, Asda,Texaco, Shell, Esso, BP etc. It's true a lot of the fuel they supply within a reasonable distance of their own refinery or distribution point will come from their own tanks, but that's all. Unless you're talking about their premium products - some, but not all do add their own additives to what's picked up from the local refinery/distribution point. Nothing to do with marine diesel, but it seems to be a common misconception that the petrol supplied to the supermarkets is of a lesser quality than that supplied to the the oil companies own/franchised stations, similar to tesco value beans, it's not the case in my experience.
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Latestarter1
Well-Known Member
Suspect that this is why the know nothing numpty has spent majority of his working life servicing cars.......
Supermarket fuel is NOT sub-standard, it is BS EN590 fuel fuel pumps labelled to that effect, purchased on the spot market from major suppliers.
Every major producer has their own additive pack. Because is purchased on the spot market fuel oils may lack consistency that is all.
All major operators such as Stobart, First Group, Stagecoach etc etc purchase their fuel on the same market, no major transport undertaking would put their operations at risk by purchasing sub standard fuel.
Happy to discuss further, however I suggest subject belongs in the lounge, not here.
Bbroomlea
Well-Known Member
So many conflicting views on supermarket diesel - never know who to believe
All I can say is my 3 year old uber polluting VAG car is about to hit 100,000 miles and has been exclusively ran on Morrison or Tesco diesel. As did the VAG before that and the one before that too. I would guess nearly 250,000 miles of running diesels on supermarket fuel and no issues to report.
Likewise my Dad ran his previous BMW 530 on supermarket fuel to nearly 100K and 4 years - he has no choice due to his company fuel scheme, whereas I just like to collect the points.
My wife has a MINI with a diesel and does low miles and again runs fine on supermarket stuff too! DPF problems is another issue though
Back to boating - I fill the tank at the end of the season and treat with Marine 16 diesel fuel complete, the mid-year fill up gets the standard M16 diesel bug treatment. Seems to work so far at keeping the bug at bay and looking after the injectors!
Baddox
Well-Known Member
It's only nuts if you are sure that the fuel you buy is as good as it can be and has no scope for improvement. Fuels are commodities, made to a budget to keep overheads as low as possible whilst still meeting the necessary specification. There remains much scope for improvement beyond that spec.
Would you expect the same performance from a budget mineral oil as from a leading fully synthetic just because they pass the same specification?
Latestarter1
Well-Known Member
How do you know that ad-hoc adulteration of fuel by addition of additives which are not being used for their designed purpose does not result in unintended outcomes, for example I am sometimes asked to study debris found in common rail injectors and in one case it became apparent that we were looking at a crude form of plastic, but where had it come from? The likely answer was that the injectors had actually made the contaminant, when you are dealing with pressures of around 19,000 psi dramatic changes can occur to monocular structures. Stay away from the law of unintended outcomes by reading manufacturers specifications, not browsing the internet.
As to your question regarding lubes that is an even more dangerous statement.
Mineral and synthetic lubes are rarely to exactly the same specification and some manufacturers expressly state avoidance of synthetic lubricants in certain engine models except for example in very low temperature operation, examples are CAT, Cummins and Yanmar.
Range of issues from using a so called 'better' spec of synthetic lube can range from simply no benefit, just higher maintenance costs due to higher cost of lube to severe engine damage.
A few years ago several companies were seduced into benefits of lower fuel consumption and were switched to a synthetic lube produced by one of the very big names in lubricant manufacture. There was a great discussion as to whether the lube met the specification or not, engine manufacturer said no, lubricant manufacturer said yes.
However the 'superior' lubricant resulted in accelerated overhead wear and valves were no longer hitting their seats accurately due to the side loading caused by worn overhead. When a valve mushroom drops off at the friction weld and engine employs steel articulated pistons the term catastrophic failure can become over used, chunk of steel in a compressible chamber, with a steel piston stops the engine in an instant, rods bend, crankshaft twists, piston often tries to escape to atmosphere and flywheel responds to being instantly stopped by shearing its caps crews and also attempts to escape wrecking the alloy flywheel housing in the process.
Moral of the story RTFM and stick to it!
BruceK
Well-Known Member
Personally dont care if SM fuels are same standard, sub standard or even better standard. I get tank averages of 26mpg on Tesco and 31mpg on BP standard in the Landy. Tells me all I need to know.... any savings on Tesco are more than lost on range. Why this should be, not really concerned but somewhat amused at myself at how I religeously keep an eye on mpg in the car but use the boat with gay abandon.
Markergi
New Member
I'd be prepared to bet my house that's not the case, where do you think the fuel from Tesco's come from? What do you think is added to produce a 20% improvement in fuel consumption?
BruceK
Well-Known Member
I'll take the bet for your house. And I'm no chemical engineer, how the hell would I know, just relaying my experience.
Markergi
New Member
I'm sure you believe what you're saying but I think you're mistaken. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I used to work in the industry, on refineries, also in the oil accounts office and know for a fact that the standard unleaded/diesel going in to a Tesco tanker is exactly the same as what's going into the BP/Shell tanker waiting in the queue. You can get minor variations in mpg (aside from the obvious traffic/driving style etc.) because occasionally the blend can result in a slightly higher octane level than the minimum and still be 'on grade', but there's as much chance of getting marginally better fuel from Tesco as there is from BP or anywhere else. As I've not been involved for 15 years I thought I'd check my facts with a friend who’s in a senior position in the processing team at a local refinery and he's confirmed nothing has changed; one tank of on grade fuel is still filling all of the road tankers in the queue. It makes no commercial sense to send a road tanker on a 600 mile round trip to deliver your own refined fuel, so oil companies regularly buy from each and stock up at the nearest refinery or tank farm and the supermarkets have to do the same. If BP were able to sell fuel that resulted in a 20% increase over the fuel in the supermarkets don’t you think they’d be shouting that from the rooftops?
If you're serious about the bet, I will stand by it but I would urge you to carry out some more testing first as I'm confident you're mistaken.
As an aside, a guy I know used to have the same argument, he lived in Milford Haven and travelled to work in Fawley every week. He would fill up in the local Shell garage and arrive in Fawley with quarter of a tank of fuel. He’d fill up at Tesco’s on a Friday, head home and as far as he was concerned, always arrived home with a tank not far off empty. After a lively debate in the pub, we convinced him to do the opposite. Fill up from Tesco’s this end and from Shell the other and guess what? Yep, he’s been buying supermarket fuel ever since!
If you're serious about the bet, I will stand by it but I would urge you to carry out some more testing first as I'm confident you're mistaken.
As an aside, a guy I know used to have the same argument, he lived in Milford Haven and travelled to work in Fawley every week. He would fill up in the local Shell garage and arrive in Fawley with quarter of a tank of fuel. He’d fill up at Tesco’s on a Friday, head home and as far as he was concerned, always arrived home with a tank not far off empty. After a lively debate in the pub, we convinced him to do the opposite. Fill up from Tesco’s this end and from Shell the other and guess what? Yep, he’s been buying supermarket fuel ever since!
BruceK
Well-Known Member
I had a rummage around google too and you are absolutely right, but damned if the mpg isn't lower in the Landy. And although not done scientifically that's what I'm getting (I'm a bit anal that way and watch the mpg more than the speedo). Here is an interesting aside. The wife's Focus sees no mpg difference. If I put in the advanced branded diesels I also get a drop in mpg in the Landy. Yet you may be correct in your anecdote. I fill up at one particular pump in one particular station heading out and avoid motorway services heading back in. Maybe therein lies the issue.
bigwow
Well-Known Member
I get 45-50 MPG on my trips over to the boat, just saying:encouragement:
