Did a circuit diagram for solar, Integrel generator, Lithium battery banks etc .....

[geem]

told you that you wont need the generator, didn't I

We were fortunate that it's been pretty sunny recently and as we head into summer the sun is higher. In the winter I suspect we may need to make water on the generator so I won't know the answer to that until November/December. We certainly won't be ripping it out.
I have just ordered another 200w of solar that I will use as roving panels for when we are at anchor or fix them to the sprayhood when on passage if we need the extra solar. I will also build a second smaller lithium bank in November and remove the Trojans so I have some resilience to a BMS failure without having to carry the heavy Trojans.
I will parallel up the two lithium banks. This will be handy to cut the inrush current on the BMS mosfets as well. They may last longer. But yes, you were right. Gas and generator use is much reduced

 

[Baggywrinkle]

@vas ... the Integrel produces 170A @ 51,2V at about 1200 rpm (a 8,7 kVA generator) .... maximum discharge and charge rates on the Victron 24V batteries is 400A but recommended charge current is <=100A - I am hoping to be able to make water and charge both Li banks at the same time in a short period of time. I will size the water-maker so it can fill the tanks in the same time as it takes the generator to fill the batteries from 10%.

@vas @geem I'm building it in phases ... I'm not sure how much solar I can fit until I get the boat and look at the panels and available space - my aim is as much as physically possible on a 42 ft AWB. Your experience of Lithium is very encouraging as my 300W on the last boat produced 1,3-1,4 kWh in the right conditions (low battery and plenty of sun). I'm hopefully not going to need a generator, but I do have a hankering for reverse-cycle air conditioning .... so the solar and lithium will go in first, I'll use it for a season and then make a decision to go high output alternator or integrel - but you only live once and you can't take it with you.

@jakew009 ... that was my take on the RCD ... the cable will go from the shore-power inlet on the stern directly to the Multiplus in a conduit ... the probability of anything going wrong on this stretch of cable is quite remote, there is a functioning RCD in my marina berth so it just leaves "foreign" shore-power which in my experience of the Med is not usually an issue ... the only problem I've come across in my cruising ground in the last ten years is when someone else either unplugs you or piggy-backs their shore power with a Y connector and trips the shore feed.

I also like Victron because I have had a very good experience with their systems on my boat and camper van - I like the integration and control.

 

[vas]

@Baggywrinkle just be aware it's highly unlikely you'll ever need to charge from 10%...
unless you boat in the north in the winter.
Further, don't forget you dont need to get them up to full everyday (or almost ever...), getting this out of your mind is not easy took me half a month to relax on that respect and not bother to check what % the bank is at.
agree you cannot take them with you (just back from the funeral of a v.good friend and colleague) but do your maths right and get a bigger boat to fit more solar On a more serious note, solar on yachts is a difficult thing, boom shading if you use the bimini, ugly (often) if you do a custom arch, moving things about if you use the railings,, so take your pick, get as much as you can and wont regret it. I'm on 2X300W on a custom hardtop, I'll move to 2X420W same size as mine (shows how much performance has improved over the last 5yrs!)
finaly, you'll be amazed how much more juice you harvest from same sun with lifepos.

V.

 

[geem]

@vas ... the Integrel produces 170A @ 51,2V at about 1200 rpm (a 8,7 kVA generator) .... maximum discharge and charge rates on the Victron 24V batteries is 400A but recommended charge current is <=100A - I am hoping to be able to make water and charge both Li banks at the same time in a short period of time. I will size the water-maker so it can fill the tanks in the same time as it takes the generator to fill the batteries from 10%.

@vas @geem I'm building it in phases ... I'm not sure how much solar I can fit until I get the boat and look at the panels and available space - my aim is as much as physically possible on a 42 ft AWB. Your experience of Lithium is very encouraging as my 300W on the last boat produced 1,3-1,4 kWh in the right conditions (low battery and plenty of sun). I'm hopefully not going to need a generator, but I do have a hankering for reverse-cycle air conditioning .... so the solar and lithium will go in first, I'll use it for a season and then make a decision to go high output alternator or integrel - but you only live once and you can't take it with you.

@jakew009 ... that was my take on the RCD ... the cable will go from the shore-power inlet on the stern directly to the Multiplus in a conduit ... the probability of anything going wrong on this stretch of cable is quite remote, there is a functioning RCD in my marina berth so it just leaves "foreign" shore-power which in my experience of the Med is not usually an issue ... the only problem I've come across in my cruising ground in the last ten years is when someone else either unplugs you or piggy-backs their shore power with a Y connector and trips the shore feed.

I also like Victron because I have had a very good experience with their systems on my boat and camper van - I like the integration and control.

For comparison purposes with lead batteries our typical daily solar harvest was circa 2kwh with a peak at 2.25kwh. we now never drop below 3kwh with a peak at 4kwh. This is with 720w of solar. The solar consists of 4x185w panels mounted on the guard rails. Some time in the future I will swap out our existing panels for 200w units as the new ones are the same size as our 185w panels. With the 200w we have on order this will put us at 1000w without a solar arch on a 44ft boat

 

[gregcope]

but do your maths right and get a bigger boat to fit more solar

Can I use that as an excuse to get a bigger boat? Ie I need more solar => bigger boat required.

 

[gregcope]

Another thought.

Switched precharge resistor in parallel with isolator to the multiplus so that you can charge the multiplus capacitors.

 

[gregcope]

For comparison purposes with lead batteries our typical daily solar harvest was circa 2kwh with a peak at 2.25kwh. we now never drop below 3kwh with a peak at 4kwh. This is with 720w of solar. The solar consists of 4x185w panels mounted on the guard rails. Some time in the future I will swap out our existing panels for 200w units as the new ones are the same size as our 185w panels. With the 200w we have on order this will put us at 1000w without a solar arch on a 44ft boat

Those solar yield improvements are huge. An increase of 40% average to 50% peak.

Is there a rule of thumb there or do you think it would vary on solar/FLA/lifepo4 mix?

 

[geem]

Those solar yield improvements are huge. An increase of 40% average to 50% peak.

Is there a rule of thumb there or do you think it would vary on solar/FLA/lifepo4 mix?

If you have enough lithium capacity or enough load on the lithium battery then the solar never goes off bulk. It just works flat out. Anybody who is used to getting lead batteries on float by lunchtime is wasting a huge amount of solar capacity. In the order of half of their installed capacity.
Once I add an additional 200w of solar I expect to peak at about 5kw.
Lead doesn't need to be part of the system except for engine starting

 

[jwfrary]

There is little point fitting an RCD device in the boat between the plug and the multiplus. Commonly it'd only an MCB to protect the cable on the input and the plug in a pluggable installation.

Theres going to be an RCD in the pontoon plug anyway.

There will be RCD on the output side of the multiplus both on AC1 and AC2 these would trip first on a fault down the line. Hence the extra one is of little value. Electrical codes vary place to place so of course you need to ensure that your complying with your local code.

Did you want a fuse on the 12V start battery pos nr the isolator? (bottom right)

Also the shorepower side does not have an RCB or MCBO? (Top right)

I like to fit on/off switches on the victron stuff (eg MPPT and B2B) so that you can isolate (or you can remove fuses).

What did you for the diagram. Its looks smart!

 

[jwfrary]

Integral is very keen money.

Have you considered a Delstar alternator at 24v or 48v and a wakespeed 500 controller which would be quite a bit cheaper but a bit more effort.

 

[gregcope]

There is little point fitting an RCD device in the boat between the plug and the multiplus. Commonly it'd only an MCB to protect the cable on the input and the plug in a pluggable installation.

Theres going to be an RCD in the pontoon plug anyway.

There will be RCD on the output side of the multiplus both on AC1 and AC2 these would trip first on a fault down the line. Hence the extra one is of little value. Electrical codes vary place to place so of course you need to ensure that your complying with your local code.

Thanks good input.
Would there be any harm here to fit an MCBO near the shore power connector on the input side?

 

[jwfrary]

Thanks good input.
Would there be any harm here to fit an MCBO near the shore power connector on the input side?

I would reccomend it at whatever the rating of the socket/cable your using presumably a 16 amp. So a C rated 16amp mcbo would be suitable.

I tend to fit an indicator lamp so you can see If power is availible at the input as well.

If your not fitting an isolation transformer already then they are worth considering as it romoves the worry of reverse polarity. Otherwise reverse polarity indicators are a good idea!

 

[gregcope]

Thanks. Not intending to use shorepower much do avoiding an isolation transformer.