Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
Not me
Dickies gone bust
- Thread starter nautibusiness12
- Start date
Not me
MiniAdventure
New Member
I've heard that although AM Dickies have gone into administration, 10 jobs have been secured. More importantly not one New or used boat customer lost their deposits, or indeed have been affected in any way. Let's not forget they have been trading for over 100 years and I'm sure that a lot of suppliers have done very well out of Dickies in the past.
As I understand it, the o/s suppliers will be paid (or am I wrong?) - I would have thought that anyone owed money would have contacted the administrators or the head office for answers, instead of posting here in the forums and perhaps not being in full charge of the facts before doing so!
Peter Dickie is a good man, this is a sad time for all, including ex-employees and yes, suppliers! But surely enough has been said now.
As I understand it, the o/s suppliers will be paid (or am I wrong?) - I would have thought that anyone owed money would have contacted the administrators or the head office for answers, instead of posting here in the forums and perhaps not being in full charge of the facts before doing so!
Peter Dickie is a good man, this is a sad time for all, including ex-employees and yes, suppliers! But surely enough has been said now.
beejay190
Well-Known Member
Good to read no deposits lost. Administrators report estimates unsecured non preferential creditors might get back 29p in the £, but for this to happen Directors have to repay £118k of loans.
P4Paul
Well-Known Member
Lets not forget that while the Phoenix company have TUPE'ed the staff over, we, the tax payer will be picking up the cost of unpaid wages, income tax and national insurance contributions.
To add a little more insult, I see premier marinas are out of pocket as well, so I expect my berthing fees will be rising to cover that as well.
I have never dealt with Dickies, never purchased anything from them, never owed them money, never sold them anything, never made any profit from them nor received any enjoyment from any activity they untook in their 100+ years of trading.
Yes it is sad for those involved but being blunt, the directors could have, and in my opinion should have, pulled the plug at a point when they could still pay all the bills.
If Peter Dickie is a good man, perhaps he would like to buy me a drink at SIPS and thank me for helping to cover the outstanding debts on his office bills, his boat storage costs and his wage bills.
I know this sounds harsh, but I have had a **** week at work, made some really tough decisions which are not popular with my colleagues and when I am asked to be gentle on someone who should have seen the writing on the wall earlier, my hackles rise and I can't help but vent my feelings.
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Agreed, I don't think there are many that make a decent margin from boats. The prices are eye watering, but again, so are the costs!Who would be a boat dealer?
Turnover £6.5 million
Cost of goods sold £6 million
Net profit £500k
Expenses £600k
Anders_P42
Well-Known Member
£371.90 - the average hourly rate charged by Duff & Phelps. Sounds like these people are border line crooks charging extortionate amounts of money on matters relating to other people's misfortune!
beejay190
Well-Known Member
Yep, Partner charge out rate is £505 an hour ! Total fee getting on towards £100K.
Neil_Y
Well-Known Member
I agree with P4Paul, I've also been in charge of company turn arounds and downscaling and doing all the horrible tough parts of running a business deciding who goes and who stays. Tell your suppliers at the first sign of any difficulties, review your costs, reduce costs bring in a business analyst (I was cheaper than the administrators at £180.00/hr)
I did hear about it first on here, and phoned administrators and Dickies 5mins later to get the whole story. No news as yet on how much of what we are owed being paid. I have dealt with Dickies on a few occasions but certainly haven't made enough profit from their business to cover the losses on one outstanding invoice.
I did hear about it first on here, and phoned administrators and Dickies 5mins later to get the whole story. No news as yet on how much of what we are owed being paid. I have dealt with Dickies on a few occasions but certainly haven't made enough profit from their business to cover the losses on one outstanding invoice.
Boo2
Well-Known Member
And seeing as the epithet "good man" has been bandied about it should be noted that £118k is money taken from the company by said directors which will not have had tax paid on it either.
Boo2
Jim@sea
Well-Known Member
As a young business person with a Limited Company (years ago) chatting with friends who also had Ltd Co's, I kept hearing the expression "Directors Loan Account" so I ran it past my Accountant. He said that it was money that Directors had lent to the Company so when they drew some out of their Directors Loan Account it was money they had "Loaned " to the Company.
But my friends did not see it that way, they just took money out when they wanted it. No control.
akyaka
Well-Known Member
Presumably out of the millions that the family got for selling the old yard for housing prior to the disastrous move to Penrhyn Dock
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Sooner or later, HMRC will catch up with that. You can't just take money out of your company without accounting for it as salary, dividend, legitimate expenses, pension payment or loan and paying tax as is appropriate. In any case, the company auditor is supposed to pick that kind of thing up although with small companies which don't require a full audit, admittedly this might be difficult.
As for Dickies, if the directors have outstanding loans to the company, they should have been paying a commercial rate of interest to the company and, unless they bankrupt themselves personally, the administrator should be able to force them to repay any outstanding capital. And yes, IMHO administrators are the worst vultures of all, charging huge fees for winding up companies and ensuring they get paid in front of anybody else
Anders_P42
Well-Known Member
Yes the directors would pay 4% interest on the loan. Company tax is due if the loan hasn't been paid back within nine months and one day of the end of company's accounting period. I recently borrowed from my company and did an official loan document on company letterhead.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Having read the report, that's a f*****g stitch up. £55k for the net assets of the old company which by the administrators value in excess of that and thats without any valuation of the goodwill (in the commercial sense) associated with the Dickies brand. So the administrators walk away with £44k, the Dickie family get their company back free and clear for a paltry £55k, the secured creditors get what they are owed and the non-secured creditors effectively pay for it all. I do wonder whether this is legally challengeable on the basis that an open sale would have achieved far more than £55k
Neil_Y
Well-Known Member
I had the same feeling, the brand alone and website which is quite busy (ranks @2.1M just below Berthon @ 1.3M, Crewsaver @1.7M and above sites like betamarine.co.uk @3.0M and Mastercraft.co.uk @6.0M)
This values their website visitor numbers close to a major well known marine brand, this sort of traffic takes years to develop, and could not have happened had the business restarted with a different brand.
The figures above rank site visits from 1 being the most visited.
This values their website visitor numbers close to a major well known marine brand, this sort of traffic takes years to develop, and could not have happened had the business restarted with a different brand.
The figures above rank site visits from 1 being the most visited.
nautibusiness12
Member
Thank goodness I did not see Beneteau's name on the list of companies that will get 29p in the £ back. I for one am very happy that it looks like it is mainly small companies and ex staff that are losing out. It would be awful if a massive French boat manufacturer lost out in any way. It is also good to read that one of the reasons they could not sell the business is because beneteau would only deal with the former directors. who can blame them for that they have done a great job of running it before. if you add back the loan to the directors and the massive fee the liquidator is charging how much would the creditors get back? it does not look like they have done a great job of realising the assets value. also I would like to know how much the directors have taken in any form over the last three years. have they taken a load of money out and the tax bill is what they should have paid on it. I am pleased to hear that the British marine federation has asked them to remove their logo.
Jim@sea
Well-Known Member
The report is very interesting. Bearing in mind that their place in Bangor would be worth a fortune (£3 Million) if it went for housing. Not being in the Green Belt, and a "Brown Field Site" the planners would love to have houses here as it would save their precious Green Belt.
And as the place appears to be rented I wonder if the landlords had been asked by the Liquidators how much they would pay to have the Lease Forefit. Mind you we dont know if the landlords have agreed to transfer the lease to the new International Ltd,Co. Would you.
And as the place appears to be rented I wonder if the landlords had been asked by the Liquidators how much they would pay to have the Lease Forefit. Mind you we dont know if the landlords have agreed to transfer the lease to the new International Ltd,Co. Would you.
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
Why would you be happy that the small guy loses out not the French builder? They can easily swallow up losses where people like Neil y from H 4 marine cannot. I myself tend to keep away from companies sub contract work, I know quite a few small men that have suffered because of the collapse of sealine, I hope there are not too many that have suffered over this one.
I hope this post was in gest. .
What makes me wonder is how the landlords let slip months of rent owing and local authorities don't get there rates paid, yet if I didn't pay my council tax/ rates I'd have a bailiff at my door asking for the tv and sideboard as its personal liability, yet companies walk away Scott free, the amount owning to premier is nearly as much as a 12 m berth for one season so its things like this that make it more expensive for the berth holder in the long run. I see the same old new stock is sat at swanwick unsold. When sealine went through the boats we chained to the pontoons, by whom I wonder? Mdl or the receiver ?
David_J
Well-Known Member
I wonder how many people lost out in a substantial way?
We have been boating for a few weeks so not really had chance to study this at all.
I noticed Peter Dickie was in their Swanwick office yesterday afternoon and his very new looking black Merc S320 outside with personalised plates. Doesnt look like he lost out much!!!
Very sad for those who lost money in this mess and very sad for the one or two good people they had in the company who lost their jobs. As for some of the others I would never let them near a boat. Some of the issues we found on our Dickies supplied boat would turn your hair grey!
We have been boating for a few weeks so not really had chance to study this at all.
I noticed Peter Dickie was in their Swanwick office yesterday afternoon and his very new looking black Merc S320 outside with personalised plates. Doesnt look like he lost out much!!!
Very sad for those who lost money in this mess and very sad for the one or two good people they had in the company who lost their jobs. As for some of the others I would never let them near a boat. Some of the issues we found on our Dickies supplied boat would turn your hair grey!
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
My hair( what bit I have ) is already grey so lets hear what problems you had and save someone else of the misfortune you had with them.
