Depreciation of a Beneteau!

[Twister_Ken]

"See what I mean now"

No, because (at the risk of getting boring) it's not the a difference of 4 feet. It's the difference cubed, because boats aren't linear.

I've lost track of what sizes you're referring to but let's say your base boat is 30 feet and your rip-off boat is 34'

30 cubed = 27,000
34 cubed = 39,304

So 45% for four more feet.

I've just moved from a 28' to a 34'. Believe me, the new boat is MUCH bigger than just an extra 6' stuck on the back.

 

[Zagato]

Dread to think what the cubic capacity of my 26' boat is with 4' 4" headroom - about the size of an A4 envelope I should think - pushed open of course Ken and the weight well.........blimmen good value for money though

 

[doug748]

WHAT???!!! A pretty good but hardly amazing sea boat; wet narrow and cramped; no loo except one in the only sleeping compartment - and £150k to buy - the cost of two Ben/Jen/Bav 31's that sail well. And it transpires the Con and the Ben both depreciate the same

How come YM are always pushing the Con?

Flogging a dead horse with me I'm afraid.

Check this out, even less room, even more money:

http://www.morrisyachts.com/The-Morris-M36

Cor Blimey, eh.

 

[Malo37]

Quite interesting to plot boat displacement against price - plot enough points and you will see a pretty consistant relationship, good enough to be able to draw a nice curve through the points.
For the past 100 years the value of money has approximately halved every ten years.
Put these two together and again you have a fairly accurate predictor of boat values. I did it and it seems to work within +/- 20%

 

[Otter]

Flogging a dead horse with me I'm afraid.

Check this out, even less room, even more money:

http://www.morrisyachts.com/The-Morris-M36

Cor Blimey, eh.

That sure looks sweet, it ain't no Contessa for sure!

 

[Tranona]

The 31' Benetau costs roughly 2.6K per foot to buy so an extra 4' should be 11K surely
,
The 37' Benetau costs roughly 3.1K per foot to buy, so an extra 4' should cost 13K surely. Now those figures could be justified.....

Do you have a fixation with length when you are being advised over and over again that the increase is not linear to length because we are talking about three dimensional objects where the size increases to the cube of the increase in one dimension.

I used to defend our education system as being capable of drumming the basics into people but it clearly failed in your case! But maybe you live in a one dimensional world.

 

[Garold]

Depreciation
Bought a Beneteau Oceanis 311 with a lifting keel about 1998. It cost about £58k with heating, cockpit canopy and a few other extras. We sold it after about 2 years for about £48k. Same boat now seems to be about £38k.

So, the lesson is that new Beneteau boats seem to lose their VAT and a bit more within the first year or so. And then after that, depreciation flattens out.

And I imagine that the depreciation would flatten out to almost nothing over the next ten years (year 12 to 22?).

Bigger boat costs
Bigger boats cost more. Since they are three dimensional, they seem to increase in cost by the cube of the increase in length. And don't even try to understand how multihulls are priced.

Cost to build boats vs. houses?? Houses are built of blocks and cement from Wickes, and my brother, who had very little success at school seems to build buildings quite well. But I'm sure that he couldn't build a boat. They have moulds and curves, and equipment. Far too complex to get the materials in Wickes!

Nope, boatbuilding even for Beneteau is a small scale production thing. Don't believe me? Then look at their website. Most of the pictures are out of date already. They change things every 10 to 20 boats. And so they are priced more than they would seem to be worth or than they should seem to cost.

Don't bother to analyse boat prices. They don't stand up to close examination if you begin to question VFM. .

Cheers

Garold

 

[EugeneR]

The size of a boat doesn't increase by the length x 1, but by length cubed. Thus, a 32 foot boat cubed is 32,768 cuft, whereas a 22 footer is 10,648. Thus, a 32 footer should be approx 3 times the price of a 22'. Guess what? It is.

You are assuming that width and depth increase by the same amount as length, which it does not. Of course, width and height would increase when length is increased, but not remotely by the same amount as length.

I agree that costs tend to go up exponentially for many of the reasons you give e.g. thicker hull, more equipment; however I don't think that exponent is as high as 3 i.e. cube.

Still, it's not 1 i.e. linear either, as Zagato seems to believe. But there does seem to be an element of higher margins on larger boats.

 

[Zagato]

That sure looks sweet, it ain't no Contessa for sure!

Simply beautiful

 

[Tranona]

You are assuming that width and depth increase by the same amount as length, which it does not. Of course, width and height would increase when length is increased, but not remotely by the same amount as length.

I agree that costs tend to go up exponentially for many of the reasons you give e.g. thicker hull, more equipment; however I don't think that exponent is as high as 3 i.e. cube.

Still, it's not 1 i.e. linear either, as Zagato seems to believe. But there does seem to be an element of higher margins on larger boats.

The cube rule does hold good for boats of comparable designs. Clearly length increases in the ends - like the Morris shown above are "cheaper" than increases in length of the more common modern types. That is why I used the Bavaria range as an example. The three models are all essentially the same design - just pumped up. So the increase in volume is in the "fat" bit which comparatively is most of the boat. The cost per kg tends to rise with size because the additional volume allows more goodies to be incorporated which are more expensive per kg than basic structure.

As to higher margins on larger boats there is an element in this - but in terms of gross margin more than net because overheads for building and selling smaller volumes of larger boats also rise.

 

[Slow_boat]

One of the surprises I found a few years ago that helped pursuade me to buy a boat of my own was the discovery that the price of a Contessa new in 1974 was roughly the same , not allowing for inflation, that the same boat would reach almost 30 years later. I bought my 1989 in Sadler 29 in 2008 for more than it's new price!

It's the 'allowing for inflation' that is the sticking point.

In 1974 £3.5k was a good wage. A decent 3 bed house in a good area would cost three times annual wage. A Contessa 32 would cost almost ten times annual wage.

The equivilant wage would, I guess, be ten times that now, £35k, and house prices four time annual wage. The same Contessa, however, would now reach about the annual wage. A new one less than three times.

We've never had it so good!

 

[doug748]

That sure looks sweet........

£250,000 .......... Always pays to go for quality, though I am told you can get afloat for less.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

The 31' Benetau costs roughly 2.6K per foot to buy so an extra 4' should be 11K surely

The 37' Benetau costs roughly 3.1K per foot to buy, so an extra 4' should cost 13K surely. Now those figures could be justified.....

I just went to Jimmy Green's online rigging quoter thingy. A 4mm diameter 5m long typical shroud bit of rigging came to £34. Double it all to 8mm diameter and 10m long and it came to £134.

Bah! What a rip-off! Surely it should just be double the price.
Bah again!

 

[Zagato]

Your doubling the width and the length so it sounds right to me

 

[Twister_Ken]

With suitable end fittings:

1 x 10m 4mm shroud from Jimmy Green, £52
1 x 15m 6mm shroud from Jimmy Green, £152

And a bigger boat might need more of them.

 

[Zagato]

I know someone in Anglesey that is selling 8mm off a roll. Can pm you his number if you are interested.

You're always going to pay a premium if you go through a chandlers.

 

[FullCircle]

I know someone in Anglesey that is selling 8mm off a roll. Can pm you his number if you are interested.

You're always going to pay a premium if you go through a chandlers.

I would like to know the provenance of any rigging wire I entrust to holding up my mast. So I use a trusted rigger.
Not that your mate is dodgy, but that is a bad example to choose, fo me at least.

I sold my last 22' boat for £6k in lovely condition.

I am thinking of selling my 35' for £9545, sticking to your formula. Any offers?

 

[Zagato]

but that is a bad example to choose, fo me at least.

Might be if you don't know the details but the wire is top notch, it's just that he has some spare, he bought a roll when he did the rigging on his boat or my boat now. The guy is an engineer and his work was described by a surveyor as second to none. The spec for rigging on his boat was 6mm but he went with 8mm, good idea

 

[Lucky Duck]

Might be if you don't know the details but the wire is top notch, it's just that he has some spare, he bought a roll when he did the rigging on his boat or my boat now. The guy is an engineer and his work was described by a surveyor as second to none. The spec for rigging on his boat was 6mm but he went with 8mm, good idea

Assuming that the original design wasn't under specified I would have thought that by going to 8mm rather than 6mm all that would be achived is an increase in windage and the weight aloft and that something else would break instead?

 

[Robin]

Might be if you don't know the details but the wire is top notch, it's just that he has some spare, he bought a roll when he did the rigging on his boat or my boat now. The guy is an engineer and his work was described by a surveyor as second to none. The spec for rigging on his boat was 6mm but he went with 8mm, good idea

No it isn't a good idea. The extra diameter will need more tension applied to keep it taut and will put more load on the boat and rigging attachments, not to mention the extra weight aloft.