Deliberately starting an anchor thread.

[Kukri]

There is a long established tendency for people who mess about in boats to want to make their boats as "capable" of long distance cruising as we can, Back in the 1930s people wanted to have a boat that could cross an ocean, though very few did.

Nothing has changed. We anchor less than we used to, because there are marinas, and more to the point there are moorings just about anywhere anyone wants to anchor, but the long distance cruisers anchor a lot, so they worry about ground tackle, and we want to be like them.

Next year I will have owned cruising boats without a break for fifty years in UK waters. Here is the sum total of all the anchoring issues I have experienced, by type of anchor:

Fisherman, used as only anchor on first boat, as kedge on second and third boats - never had a problem but would pull through soft mud.

Danforth, bower anchor on third boat - once bit its own chain and dragged and once bit a ground chain and had to be abandoned.

CQR, bower on second, bower and kedge on fourth and subsequent boats. Dragged twice, on both occasions because I was stupid enough to anchor on a short scope on the edge of deeper water and the boat pulled the anchor into it. Got foul of ground chains three times, recovered using Hiscock's loop of chain technique each time.

Er, that's it.

Mind you, I haven't gone overboard under way, either, but I still go in for lifejackets and tethers.

 

[dom]

Looks like CQR is still comfortably best of breed for both bower and kedge.

So, all in all two CQRs seems like the way to go!

Off to start digging an Anderson shelter now

 

[Daydream believer]

Er, that's it.

.

Too windy to go sailing & getting a bit bored are we????
Stop trying to wind everyone up, just because you are going cold turkey:ambivalence:

 

[Poignard]

Nobody but a fool would risk losing his boat and possibly his and other's lives by using an unsafe anchor.

The CQR anchor was patented in the 1930s.

The great number of them still being used demonstrates that it It has been a very successful anchor.

If it had not been, you would not see so many of them in use around the world, since there are many readily available and competitively priced alternatives on the market.

It may well be that better anchors have been invented since the CQR first came on the market more than 80 years ago.

That does not mean that the CQR has suddenly become useless, anymore than the emergence of a new mobile phone immediately renders its predecessors useless.

The CQR was Eric Hiscock's choice of anchor.

If it was good enough for him, it's good enough for me.

I chose CQR anchors for the three boats I have owned.

I have never had any reason to regret doing so.

 

[LadyInBed]

The w/e before last I watched a boat drag off Studland, no one on board, it hit the boat to my Starboard and hung there hooked by the anchor chain, there was nothing I could do to help as my inflatable was all packed away. A MoBo came to his assistance and pulled the yacht free then towed it back inshore and re anchored it. That was down to too short a scope.
I've dragged a couple of times, once in Lulworth, I anchored in the wrong place - just inside the entrance on the East side. The bottom is wall to wall kelp and I was on a Bruce!
I managed to loose the Bruce on the Seine heading to Rouen, I didn't have enough time to do the full trip before dark, so anchored on a large CQR (22 ft boat) and I used a tripping line. Late in the evening I wasn't happy on just one anchor so I laid the Bruce, but didn't put a tripping line on it! In the morning the Bruce got hooked on some ground chain, I couldn't free it, the strength of the current didn't help, so I had to abandon it.
The other time that I dragged was around the back of Brownsea Island in soft clay on a Delta. The Delta was specked correctly for the length of boat, but the boats Pilot House windage hadn't been taken into account. After that I upped the size of the Delta by one, I now hold well.

 

[Kukri]

Too windy to go sailing & getting a bit bored are we????
Stop trying to wind everyone up, just because you are going cold turkey:ambivalence:

Up to a point, Lord Copper! Besides the weather, and not being allowed to play in the sandbox (!) I want to make the point that some people have a sort of fear of anchoring, and so they feel that they have to buy the latest and the best kit, when really it's one of the very easiest things to do in a boat, and very seldom goes wrong.

 

[capnsensible]

Ive found that the further you go from the UK, the more common anchring is. Probably a lot to do with less mud (not always) more settled weather and much less tidal range.

Best thing I ever fitted to my liveaboard yacht is an electric windlass. And a CQR!!!!

 

[RupertW]

My experience of anchoring is that I’ve never changed the anchor I’ve acquired with the each boat I’ve owned, a CQR, two Danforths and a Delta.

All of them did the job and none dragged once set. But in the UK I didn’t anchor that often and never really wanted to test them in reverse in case they dragged - which fortunately they didn’t.

Chartering in Caribbean and Med then having my own boat for the last decade in the Med I found I’ve anchored most of the time, always test the seabed by high reverse and have seen quite a few dodgy settings by snorkelling - and that’s weed, cracks in rocks holding the anchor and layers of sand over smooth rock.

Technique is almost everything, I think, but the last few percent must be the anchor type. And it would be good to have an anchor that set in a shorter distance than the 3-4 meters that the Delta takes.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I dislike marinas so anchor in quiet or not so quiet spots quite a lot.

I have lost one bruce fouled on barge mooring chain but retrieved from the thameside at LW.
I have lost one bruce when chain wrapped round keel and I had to cut it and its pickup buoy free to move. I buoyed the chain but it pulled under.
I lost another bruce when it jambed in underwater reef. Lifeboat offered to try for me and started to pull its bows under.
I bought 3rd boat with CQR and dragged badly in Blue Anchor mud. Bought Bruce but dragged ferryside in 2kts tide and saw 50m long furrow in the hard sand at low tide. Thats why its called still a plough!
Bought fourth boat and got anchor dragging in Barry Harbour as not enough scope to cope with 12m rise. My bad.
Got Bruce anchor dragging slightly off Tresco in exposed F6, so set CQR as 2nd anchor. Bought Manson Supreme as bad weather backup as could clearly see why it would work better. Sat out F8+ and slept well with chain snubbed
Got fifth boat with CQR and had irritating anchor setting issues at Edgecomb which delayed me getting to eating house. Bought Bruce for that boat and also moved Manson Supreme to newer boat. Sent CQR to use as kedge on old boat.

Conclusion CQRs are rubbish in soft mud and not brilliant in penetrating weed or very hard sand.
Bruce are excellent in all mud and excellent in hard ground if you can get them to set. Only very very slightly better in weeds than CQR
Manson Supreme are excellent in all conditions but overkill and dig up large weighty chunks of seafloor for removal at the bow roller.
Tripping lines only work in calm waters, clear seas and maybe not even then and dont half tangle things up on occasions.

 

[Kukri]

I agree that lines are usually best avoided.

The Hiscock loop of chain trick should work on any anchor where the chain can slide down the shank - not Danforth types, though.

 

[johnalison]

First boat, 22', Danforth. I knew nothing about anchoring but managed on the East Coast, even at Orford (3kn stream).
Second boat 26'. Danforth again. Fouled in fairway at Ramsholt where directed by HM and had to be cut off.
Third boat 28'. 5lb Plough. never had any particular problem.
Fourth and current boat 34'. 45lb CQR. Normally OK and now more skilled. Occasional failure to bite in Hamford Water (weed) and at the Rocks (firm stony bottom). In the last case the spare 10Kg Bruce bit instantly.
Currently not inclined to worry about the gear, though would probably specify a new generation anchor if starting again.

 

[GHA]

Technique is almost everything, I think, but the last few percent must be the anchor type. And it would be good to have an anchor that set in a shorter distance than the 3-4 meters that the Delta takes.

That's what the perceived wisdom was when I started full time cruising not that long ago. And that the cqr was the best game in town. Knew no different.

Then came a new gen and everything changed, fling it over with a load of chain and stick it in reverse. Works pretty much every time, bang and down goes the bows, just go slow if it's rocky. Like night and day compared to the long since given away cqr.

If technique is everything get a better hook

(not actually quite as slap dash as that, make sure all the chain doesn't land on the hook)

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Fourth and current boat 34'. 45lb CQR. Normally OK and now more skilled. Occasional failure to bite in Hamford Water (weed) and at the Rocks (firm stony bottom). In the last case the spare 10Kg Bruce bit instantly.
Currently not inclined to worry about the gear, though would probably specify a new generation anchor if starting again.

So a 10kg bruce (22lb) is better than a massive 45lb CQR. Tells me all I suspected about CQRs.

 

[Frank Holden]

What I have and some thorts.....

When I bought her 25 years ago my present boat came with a 'genuine' CQR. Over time I have accumulated a few more.
A spare Manson CQR clone which has lived under my bunk for 20 years and never been wet.
A West Australian Swarbrick which is a fisherman style of a thing.
A fortress which has lived under another bunk for almost as long... seemed like a good idea at the time.
A small danforth with a bent shank, bought very cheaply, as a kedge... it gets a reasonable amount of use when nose in to jetties (Aust) or as part of a 4 line tie up (Chile).
A Rocna as primary for the last 12 years.

The Swarbrick has been used twice in Bass Strait and East Coast Tasmania on hard sand where the CQR showed absolutely no interest in setting. I have heard that in South Australia they sharpen the 'tips'.... it seems they have a lot of hard sand.
The original CQR was traded for a small amount of engineering work. In my opinion good for what it was designed for ... mud... not much good in heavy kelp which is a feature in Chile. Replaced with the Rocna.

The Rocna.... excellent in heavy kelp and everything else I have used it in.
'Shifted our berth' with it once... we moved about a boat length and then stopped.... not sure if the anchor moved or we were just straightening the chain in the kelp. That was in 60 knot rachas... french 'expedition yacht' Podorange dragged straight past us in the next puff and kept on dragging into deeper water... entire crew on the beach... didn't they move fast!..... I have a photo of her somewhere .... has a danforth sort of an anchor... looks undersized.

 

[photodog]

I dislike marinas so anchor in quiet or not so quiet spots quite a lot.

I have lost one bruce fouled on barge mooring chain but retrieved from the thameside at LW.
I have lost one bruce when chain wrapped round keel and I had to cut it and its pickup buoy free to move. I buoyed the chain but it pulled under.
I lost another bruce when it jambed in underwater reef. Lifeboat offered to try for me and started to pull its bows under.
I bought 3rd boat with CQR and dragged badly in Blue Anchor mud. Bought Bruce but dragged ferryside in 2kts tide and saw 50m long furrow in the hard sand at low tide. Thats why its called still a plough!
Bought fourth boat and got anchor dragging in Barry Harbour as not enough scope to cope with 12m rise. My bad.
Got Bruce anchor dragging slightly off Tresco in exposed F6, so set CQR as 2nd anchor. Bought Manson Supreme as bad weather backup as could clearly see why it would work better. Sat out F8+ and slept well with chain snubbed
Got fifth boat with CQR and had irritating anchor setting issues at Edgecomb which delayed me getting to eating house. Bought Bruce for that boat and also moved Manson Supreme to newer boat. Sent CQR to use as kedge on old boat.

Conclusion CQRs are rubbish in soft mud and not brilliant in penetrating weed or very hard sand.
Bruce are excellent in all mud and excellent in hard ground if you can get them to set. Only very very slightly better in weeds than CQR
Manson Supreme are excellent in all conditions but overkill and dig up large weighty chunks of seafloor for removal at the bow roller.
Tripping lines only work in calm waters, clear seas and maybe not even then and dont half tangle things up on occasions.

You know you don’t have to buy the boat as well as the anchor?

 

[Neeves]

We would have to say that if you use a CQR with caution and care it is surprisingly good, but buy a genuine one (which I understand you can buy very cheaply 2nd hand, maybe some people would pay to take theirs away). However they need care and skill (or in our case, luck) to have them set properly. Our CQRs have only dragged once - the tide rose, the scope was then too short, and we arrived at the beach to see her drifting off toward Macau - some lovely MoBo owner ferried me out (he seemed to smile a lot!) We had a Manson clone CQR. In the drop forged shank it said it was 45lb (I recall) more recently when I developed my fetish I weighed it - it weighed 55lb. I mentioned this to the then MD, he laughed and said I was lucky - I was not impressed (as the extra 10lb might have been in the wrong place). it dragged a lot (and gives the CQR a bad name). We have tried most of the others, genuine and copy Bruce, Rocna, Supreme, Ultra, Delta. Kobra. We now own an Excel (both aluminium and steel), Spade both aluminium and steel, and a family of three Fortress. I also have a Mantus, so when I'm critical I know exactly how they work (or not) and a couple of Tern.

And I'm being given a Vulcan to have a look at - that is a real turn-up for the books!

As is well known - we now only use aluminium anchors.

I cannot differentiate between the Rocna, Spade, Excel, Supreme, Ultra - except the Rocna and Supreme bring up a bucket load of seabed and the Excel and Spade are far better than the others in weed. I have not tried the Ultra in weed. These anchors are easy to set - idiot proof - which is a good thing. Sadly they do cost - and those retired CQRs are so cheap. Though I have used Bruce and Delta I cannot say I am 'experienced' but enough people who have used them whose skills I can admire and they appear to have the reassuring attributes of the CQR.

None of these anchors work in soupy mud - our Excel dragged for some considerable distance - but Fortress excels under those conditions (and is also excellent in sand).

The 2nd Generation anchors are easy to set and are reliable, the first generation anchors are much more difficult to set and when set, our experience with the CQR is that they are reliable and have sufficient hold.

The advice from the US and HM Navy for hard seabeds is - sharpen the fluke. Visions of erks(?) on the bow of aircraft carriers sharpening anchor flukes

We don't use marinas, where we go they are like dragon's teeth anyway. Most annoying - marinas appear to have been built over some of the best anchoring grounds.

To summarise our experiences - no anchor is perfect, they are all a compromise. If you know their strengths and weaknesses and accept their foibles - most are reliable (though as they are idiot proof and I prefer a glass of wine to patiently setting a CQR) - so the 2nd Gen anchors get my vote - they are worth the extra money - but not critical.

Which begs the question - if the first gen anchors can be reliable and they have half the hold of the 2nd gen anchors but the same sized anchor (whether 1st or 2nd gen) is recommended for a yacht - why the oversizing of the 2nd gen anchors. Was there this clarion call from the armchair when people wanted to buy a new 1st gen anchor - or is it simply an 'internet' thing (and that fear factor to which Minn aludes).

Jonathan

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Which begs the question - if the first gen anchors can be reliable and they have half the hold of the 2nd gen anchors but the same sized anchor (whether 1st or 2nd gen) is recommended for a yacht - why the oversizing of the 2nd gen anchors. Was there this clarion call from the armchair when people wanted to buy a new 1st gen anchor - or is it simply an 'internet' thing (and that fear factor to which Minn aludes). Jonathan

I think the issue may be with smaller boats - by which I mean anything much less than 10m. Ration of boat size to anchor need does not scale well. Consider anchor size to boat weight on a freighter to see to effect. Larger anchors simply work better, so on a small boat you need an apparent oversize anchor to break deeply enough into the seabed or you need a better reasonable size anchor to get adequate results.

Having then dragged on an apparently firmly set genuine 10kg CQR set in sand on a 26ft in a mere F4 gusting F5, I would never trust them except for lunch stops

 

[Kukri]

Hiscock remarks (“Cruising Under Sail”, 1st edition, top of page 184) that the minimum weight for a CQR is 30lbs, for this reason.

 

[Poignard]

Hiscock remarks (“Cruising Under Sail”, 1st edition, top of page 184) that the minimum weight for a CQR is 30lbs, for this reason.

And, as you can't buy a 30lb genuine CQR, the effective minimum is 35lb.

He also says when anchoring it should be given plenty of chain straight away which is what I do.

I watched someone making several attempts to anchor a Westerly Centaur in Studland Bay using a CQR several years ago and at each attempt he let out hardly any chain before motoring astern hard. Each time the anchor dragged and eventually he gave up and headed off towards Poole. Perhaps to buy a different kind of anchor? Or better still, a copy of Hiscocks' "Cruising Under Sail"!

 

[KellysEye]

We had CQR and every charter boat we sailed had one too, we chartered twor or three times a year for 10 years so it was a very large number of boats.