Deflectors for Genoa Halyards?

DJE

DJE

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Had a halyard wrap round the forestay when furling the genoa earlier this year. This very rarely happens but I had eased the halyard a lot on a very light wind day and forgotten to re-tension it before furling. Anyway got the mast down and found some slight twisting of the forestay so I will probably be replacing the stay.
The question is how to stop it happening again? They are internal halyards and exit the mast very close to the top of the forestay. In the (old) furling gear instructions it says to pass the halyards through eyes riveted to the mast just below the sheaves. Does this work? Doesn't it produce a lot of friction and wear on the halyards? I am using rope-to-wire spliced halyards at the moment but thinking about trying Dynema or similar low-stretch rope in future.
Although we have furling gear we also have a choice of headsails and always take the headsail off when leaving the boat. So the halyards get a lot of use.
 
You could put a block on that eye ... that would reduce the friction ...
the angle of attack between the foil and the halyard needs to be reasonable otherwise it will just try and drag it around unless you have good tension in the halyard (but you knew that already!)
 
I believe an angle in the order of 45 degrees, I'm sure a formite will give the exact angle, is recomended between the halyard exit and the top bearing of the reefing. On mine this required a plate riviting on the mast through which the halyard runs to get the correct angle.
 
The halyard MUST have an aft component in the direction of pull as well as 'up' or sooner or later it will wrap. The simple eye usually works fine but there are ones with a small pulley, we have a plain eye and nearly 600sqft of sail and it works fine. It is sometimes possible to achieve a similar result by using a cranked shackle on the halyard and years ago our sailmaker made one for us on an earlier boat as a temporary measure (only changed when the mast was down fo a re-rig) but I have since seen them on sale, maybe in Wichard's range?

Edited to add:-

The angle back doesn't need to be excessive, I think >10degs.

Beware hayard wrap especially if you are using multiple headsails because the halyard angle created will be lost with a shorter luff sail unless that sail has a head strop fitted to allow the furler swivel to reach full normal height.
 
Yes a block would be nice but there is very little space between the top swivel and the mast to put a block and still get a good deflection angle. Just had a thought if I crop that picture of the boat that Eddie Mays took this summer I can show you the problem:-
Masthead.jpg
 
[ QUOTE ]
Beware hayard wrap especially if you are using multiple headsails because the halyard angle created will be lost with a shorter luff sail unless that sail has a head strop fitted to allow the furler swivel to reach full normal height.

[/ QUOTE ] Yes I've had that problem as well. I've now got a strop on the No.3 genoa and this will be my third forestay! Can you explain a bit more about the cranked shackle? Is this just a shackle passed around the halyard and fixed to the eye on the mast?
 
Yup - it is a bit tight isn't it ...

you could get the block tight up against the mast by using some spectra/dynema/kevlar as a strop tied around the mast (or back to suitable tie off points. The block doesn't have to take much pressure - just add a little deflection. The bridle can even stretch a little - it just stops the halyard from being dragged around.

Looking at your arrangement there - assuming your main is pulled right up I'd be tempted to strap a block right round the mast and see if that helps - if it does then you can go for a more permanent solution.... Oh - get rid of that bobble and that'll give you a few extra inches to play with ! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
Yes it's tight and that is the laminate genoa. The No.3 is Dacron and although it is the same length on the ground I'm sure it stretches more than the laminate allowing the swivel to go higher. Also the main goes right to the top on windy days when I sweat up on the halyard.
 
Seateach do a little stainless gizmo, basically an eye that you rivet to the mast, that is made specifically to do what you require.

http://www.seateach.com/PlastimoReef1.asp

Scroll down this page and you will see it, it's called a Halyard Diverter Plate, just the job and as cheap as chips, if you don't fancy that they also do a Diverter Wheel which goes around your forestay. Looking at your photo, I would think you have room for either, though with the plate, you wont have to disconnect your forestay.

Charlie.
 
I had halyard wrap on mine afetr the rigging was replaced. It caused sufficient damage to necessitate the replacement of the (new) forestay. The individual wires started breaking out of the swaged fitting. It was done under warranty by the rigging company.
The Plastimo roller reefing had originally had a plastic halyard diverter fitted, but it was left off as it wasn't working correctly. The halyard was led through a stainless bullseye, rivetted to the mast.
The angle of the halyard was recommended to be 20 degrees to the forestay. We played around using a strop between the top of the genoa and the top furling swivel to achieve the angle. Since then no problem.
 
I have a Plastimo 810 reefing system and there is a small (about 4" diameter) deflector wheel at the top, just above the swivel, but still on the foil. With the addition of a cranked shackle, this has given trouble free reefing over the last 4 years. The deflector wheel is similar to the wheels used on cap stay spreaders to protect genoas. Not sure if you can get the wheels seperately, I have not seen them in swindlery catalogues but that don't mean much. I feel sure that any reasonably competant rigger could source on.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Can you explain a bit more about the cranked shackle?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a long 'D' shackle maybe 3" or so long which has had the arms bent at say 45degs to get the pin end out of line with the top of the 'D' end. Under load the bottom (swivel) end will now go (angled) towards the mast an inch before it goes up to the halyard. Lousy description I know, sorry! The shackle only connects halyard to swivel, nothing else. Bending a substantial S/S shackle isn't easy, so workshop help needed probably, but at least it doesn't need a mast climb. Note this is a bent shackle NOT a twisted one if that makes sense.
 
I have halyard diverters on my new mast which lead the halyard into the top swivel at between 5-10 degs. to prevent a wrap (these are manufacturers- Selden - angles) The diverters themselves are made of a softer alloy so they won't damage the halyard but still provide a long life even though technically, I suppose, being sacrificial
 
I just can't see how that would work. Surely the halyard will still take up a straight line form the swivel to the sheave whether the shackle is bent or not. Like this:
Bent Shackle.jpg

The wheels around the forestay look like a good idea particularly as I have 2 halyards and 1 wheel would do for both.
 
Do not trust the wheel alone to do the job. I had to replace my forestay this summer which had been up for 2 weeks. I had a fitting on the mast but without enough tension, the gap in the foil caught the halyard. My solution was to remove the wheel( i can now see what is going on from the deck) I put some pvc pipe around the foil from the swivel up held in place with hose clips and tape. I have had no problem since.
 
Try redrawing it with the crank 1/4 or 1/3rd of the way from the pin not halfway, that was what I was given and which certainly worked. Remember that all that is required is a minimum 10deg angle of pull back from the swivel attachment point. We needed it when we changed from hanked to Rotostay roller on a Westerly 33 and Crusader Sails in Poole gave me the cranked shackle as a stop gap until we could fit the fairlead, it worked 'temporarily' for at least 3 years before we took the mast down to replace the rigging and fitted the pucker part. Maybe if you ask Crusader they might have one or at least tell you if it would work.

But the real solution is definitely the mast mounted fairlead and there is plenty of room seen in your pic to fit one, the simple casting type is fine.
 
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