Define proper

[pkb]

Leafing through the August issue of YM I spotted an article where a yachtsman was asked to skipper a powerboat and vice versa for a power boat owner. All very interesting if a little predictable.

However, the yachtie was described as "traditional" - no furling genoa and no marinas etc - and it was reported that he liked to navigate "properly". This meant that he didn't use GPS.

I was baffled by this. The GPS for the modern sailor is a huge man-made navigational advance - maybe as significant as the invention of the 18th century Chronometer - so why ignore its advantages.

Maybe traditionalists of the 18th century preferred to ignore chronometers and navigate themselves "properly" on to shoals and reefs and into the hands of the scavengers who lived off wrecked ships.

Or am I having an improper thought.

Peter

 

[tcm]

agreed. Doing things "properly" for some people means "like your Dad/Grandad showed you". So, eventually, gps will become "proper" for all.

We did some long offshore passages in the med this year, and mindful of this forum with discussion of possible imminent destruction of gps system possible at any minute, I carefully noted down current position etc and course to steer every so often.

Of course, if the gps system went down it's just as likely (probbly more) that the logbook would have been washed away by a large freak wave, or that a flustered crew would get everything on deck and try to helm at the same time and lose everything in the wind...so it would have been useful to have had a rotable "memory marker" on the compass to show the most recently calculated course to steer in case everything except the compass was swept away or turned off. Does anyone have one of these on a compass?

 

[sailbadthesinner]

My view is that if there is an an advancement that is a help use it but donot rely on it. Ignoring something as useful as gps seems a bit daft to me.



Beer! Now there's a temporary solution.

 

[zefender]

I was interested to read that even the RYA has changed its shorebased courses to reflect the fact that GPS is now the primary means of navigation for most of us.

If, of course GPS screens suddenly went blank then it's not the odd sailboat crashing into the harbour which might cause problems, it would be all the oil tankers, planes and everything else for whom GPS is also the standard way of getting from A to B. So a sudden break in service is unlikely and any notice given would be enough to dust of the old practice tables etc.

 

[AndrewB]

Proper as in proper course.

The way you should have been going if only that idiot hadn't come along and messed you about.

 

[bedouin]

Re: Grid Compass

There is a type of compass, called I believe a "Grid Compass" where you steer by keeping the needle parallel to a set of lines that have themselves been set up for the proper course to steer. Useful for avoiding problems with parallax, especially on boats with tillars.

As to 'Proper' navigation - I think there is a danger with GPS that it tends to do too much for us, and so can hinder us from coming to a detailed understanding of what is really happening. We can forget about Compass Error, Tides, Leeway and just concentrate on CoG. Similarly those aspects of passage planning that deal with the uncertainty of your position are no longer necessary.

The makes our everyday trips much simpler and worry-free, but must also make it harder for us to fall back on the traditional skills when necessary.

 

[jimi]

Proper is usually synonymous with painfull!

Proper school
Proper pair of shoes
Proper food
Talking Proper

Proper job


Prop 'er up ... she's had too much to drink!

Jim

 

[Cornishman]

P'raps he was a Westcountryman and making a 'proper job' of it. The word 'proper' takes on a whole new raft of meanings to the West of Taunton.

 

[ccscott49]

All bullshit this electronics stuff, navigate proper, leadline and lodestone, suspended by string, maybe a quadrant to help! pillocks! /forums/images/icons/wink.gif Mind you I have just bought a sextant, thanks Steve!

 

[jamesjermain]

In a minute

Like 'd'rec'ly

JJ

 

[Twister_Ken]

In the case of this article the test 'sail' was a quick thrash around the Solent.

Would any of us GPS for this?

 

[pkb]

Not quite the point I was making.

 

[Guest]

Hi,

I'd certainly have mine turned on - it can be really useful even in well known waters. Witness the periodic groundings on the Brambles!

Regards



Fred

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

 

[Mirelle]

Re: Grid Compass

A very excellent thing. They were first made for RAF aircraft in WW2; the advantage is that although the pilot might become disorientated from aerobatics or fatigue the compass would still show the proper course. They were adopted by UK yachtsmen who bought them from "war surplus" in the 50's and in due course Sestrel and I believe Heath made versions of them. Highly desirable, and if you see a Sestfrel one I advise you to buy it, because, alas, SIRS have not put that model back into production.

Beware of the war surplus bomber version (common) which has a vibration damping mount but no gimbals - the one used in yachts was the fighter version which was gimballed!

The great benefit is that fatigue and parallax can both lead to the wrong course being steered and the grid eliminates this risk.

 

[ean_p]

its certainly good to see the old school coming round at last......and role on the Euro system that will be even better....

 

[billmacfarlane]

" Proper " is one of those words that's used in all sorts of wierd contexts. PBO up until a couple of months ago had a habit of using the word " proper " to describe certain boats. I wrote to the ed and asked him what he meant and more importantly what about all the other boats that his readship owned that weren't " proper ". He had the good grace to admit that it was a form of snobbery and his mag would now be sticking to more informative descriptions of boats. Not sure what "proper" nav is but I guess it's all the RYA teaching stuff , sans GPS , chartplotter and radar. Incidentally I was on a Coastal Skipper course last week and I said to the instuctor that I was a bit laid back when it came to nav and he kept the GPS off all week and I had to navigate the "proper way" including 3 night time harbour entries. Didn't half concentrate my mind.

 

[ccscott49]

FWIW. As far as I'm concerned, the "proper" way is to use all the tools as neccessary at your disposal, ALL OF THEM! that means GPS, Radar, echo sounder chartplotter, charts, pencils, sextant etc. etc, not forgetting Mk1 eyeball, the luddites can sod off! I'm afraid just as the Quadrant/sextant and the clock revolutionised navigation long ago, GPS and other tools are here to stay! So live with it! IMHO

 

[halcyon]

The differance is that traditional navigation is based on physical things, magnetic field, stars, etc, modern navigation relies on man made items floating around the earth. Probably remain in operation, but not certain, if it goes traditional will still be there.
Did anyone see the Boat last night, navigating by log, hour glass and sextant and they did find lanfall. Did prove how much has been lost, so like reading you start with your ABC, with navigation you start with chart and pencil.



Brian

 

[poter]

Re: West Country

Erm!
scuse me, but I live in West Dorset am I not alowed to be a west countryman?
I drink the local ale and sometimes the local scrumpy, surely that's got to count for something, or do I have to move?

distgruntled poter.

 

[ccscott49]

Re: West Country

Not west enough, you'll have to move, got to be west of the Exe. OK, just a little bit east of that will be OK, if you buy the scrumpy!