Decent wind vane for classic 35ft sailboat

Hi, I believe the windvanes which caused problems in the GG were
a Hydrovane
a Beaufort
2 Monitors
But all the Aries kept working I think. Though some of their skippers were forced to retire etc.
Disclaimer, I have an Aries..
(and it is broken! But it got a leg smashed off by a trawler, not exactly the wind vane's fault...I am replacing it with another identical one. )

I would think about a Sea Feather, an Aries would be heavy for your boat. I had a SF before, good for lighter boats.
 
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Ohlin Karcher said:
Hi, I believe the windvanes which caused problems in the GG were
a Hydrovane
a Beaufort
2 Monitors
But all the Aries kept working I think. Though some of their skippers were forced to retire etc.
Disclaimer, I have an Aries..
(and it is broken! But it got a leg smashed off by a trawler, not exactly the wind vane's fault...I am replacing it with another identical one. )

I would think about a Sea Feather, an Aries would be heavy for your boat. I had a SF before, good for lighter boats.
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Wow, with more and more racing issues and publicity hopefully manufacturers and installers will learn their lessons...

https://wavetrain.net/2018/08/04/golden-globe-race-windvane-politics/
 
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Motor_Sailor said:
From that photo, it would seem that the boat reaches under spinnaker with a quite neutral helm. That's a good sign if you're trying to self steer!

The Windpilots are servo pendulum and as such they not only powerful, but also have a course damping effect when sailing down wind in waves which is good. As the stern begins to swing around, the servo paddle is moved so the helm applies a corrective force long before the vane detects a change in apparent wind direction. Just like an experienced helm. It makes a huge difference to downwind sailing.
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Could you explain this a bit more. Does it have a special adjustment for downwind sailing. I have a monitor and find the opposite. As the boat rolls the vane moves under gravity and the boat tends to oscillate downwind. I find I have to use a smaller vane downwind.
 
KAM said:
. . Does it have a special adjustment for downwind sailing. ..
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No there isn't an adjustment. But downwind you have two issues: rolling and yawing.

When rolling, all the bottom pivoted actual 'wind vanes' parts on various self steering gears, will develop momentum during each roll that may carry the vane beyond it's optimum position at the end of each roll. Similarly, when the boat starts to roll back again it has inertia which exacerbates this over steering. The answer is to use as light a vane as possible, which is probably why your smaller one seems to help. Are you using the lighter Monitor one made of box section plexiglass?

However all servo pendulum gears do have a yaw damping effect. Any tendency to head up or down (yaw) by wave action is immediately countered by the servo paddle 'feeling' the movement of the stern. Just like a good helmsman 'feels' it and eases the helm up long before the compass really registers a change of course.

A simple 'statistical analysis' of windvanes and their reliability in the Golden Globe is not going to tell you much. Installation and use have to be considered and much analysis is being done, but not helped by the fact that so much of the evidence didn't make it back.
 
This thought of mine may or may not be useful but I’ll proffer it:

Some boats (Ohlson 38 for example) are light on the helm in the sense of being responsive to the rudder, but develop a powerful weather helm. For such a boat, the Hydrovane seems well suited, because you can lock off the weather helm with the main rudder.

Other boats, like my 1930s gaff cutter, designed on the Metacentric Shelf theory, and my present Nicholson 55 carry negligible weather helm under almost all conditions (the gaff cutter surprised a lot of people, who took a firm grasp of the massive tiller and found themselves steering with one finger!) but they will need a good hard shove to get them back on course when they wander off in a seaway.. For such a boat, a classic servo pendulum seems best and indeed when I asked Scanmar about the Nic back came the installation tracing by return email. So I went for that.
 
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Minn said:
This thought of mine may or may not be useful but I’ll proffer it: . . . .
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There's a lot of sense in that.

There is one aspect of any servo pendulum gear that needs reinforcing as it's believed to have alluded some of the GDR installers.

You must have rudder stops set at such an angle that the gear servo oar is prevented from hitting the main frame when the helm is hard over. Most wheel boats have such rudder stops on the quadrant, but some tiller boats (particularly those with transom mounted rudders) are lacking.

Solid rudder stops should be standard on all blue water boats, but if you don't have adequate ones on a boat with a servo pendulum gear, then the force of a wave breaking against the boats main rudder will throw it to one side and will eventually be taken entirely by the servo pendulum oar hitting the frame of the vane gear. That was never its intended function and would suggest a reason for the large number of breakages of the 'weak link' in the servo oars.
 
That is an extremely valuable piece of advice. Thanks. (Have drag link Mamba, so no quadrant as such, - it’s practically the definition of ’bullet proof’ but it does have odd weaknesses. Most of them apparently die through sea water getting into the gear box via the tiny hole at the top of the pedestal for the compass light wire!)
 
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Motor_Sailor said:
No there isn't an adjustment. But downwind you have two issues: rolling and yawing.

When rolling, all the bottom pivoted actual 'wind vanes' parts on various self steering gears, will develop momentum during each roll that may carry the vane beyond it's optimum position at the end of each roll. Similarly, when the boat starts to roll back again it has inertia which exacerbates this over steering. The answer is to use as light a vane as possible, which is probably why your smaller one seems to help. Are you using the lighter Monitor one made of box section plexiglass?

However all servo pendulum gears do have a yaw damping effect. Any tendency to head up or down (yaw) by wave action is immediately countered by the servo paddle 'feeling' the movement of the stern. Just like a good helmsman 'feels' it and eases the helm up long before the compass really registers a change of course.

A simple 'statistical analysis' of windvanes and their reliability in the Golden Globe is not going to tell you much. Installation and use have to be considered and much analysis is being done, but not helped by the fact that so much of the evidence didn't make it back.
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Yes using the small monitor supplied vane. Have also used a bungee to reasonable effect. It really needs a small damper but it's difficult to criticise the system. I've used it for 10 years. Never had to maintain anything and it handles the boat better than I can.
 
I share the good opinion of Aries.

Used one mainly singlehanded across the Atlantic and back in a 34 foot sloop which is tiller steered and not particularly directionally stable.

In very light and flukey winds I tend to use a tiller pilot instead but over about 7000 miles I estimate that I used Aries about 90% of the time, tiller pilot about 6% and hand steer 4%. Aries was bombproof and particularly impressive in high winds and difficult seas.
 
Does the basic Aries kit come with a rudder? I fancy the idea of having an emergency rudder just as the Hydrovane.
 
GTom said:
Does the basic Aries kit come with a rudder? I fancy the idea of having an emergency rudder just as the Hydrovane.
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Aries does not have an emergency rudder function. The Monitor does, otherwise you need to use an auxiliary rudder system.
 
GTom said:
Found an interesting, cost efficient kit here: Hebridean wind vane. Anybody using one? Doesn't seem too robust for me, but could be upscaled.
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I know a couple of people who have this system, both very happy with it. One was on a Co32, the other a slightly smaller boat.
I met the designer and had a good long chat with him. It's a neat design, everything pivots on a single mounting point on the transom which makes it simple to install and to remove.
 
I have just installed a seafeather on my little Cheverton Caravel. Have only had it a few months and the longest trip so far is 150nm. However, it seems to do the job very well. Construction is solid. Service from Lee and Gemma excellent and at only £2k all in it seems and affordable option.
 
There are a number of windvanes in production performing very well; the biggest advantage and convenience of the Hydrovane is not the performance but the ability to be installed off the centre line, to the left or right of the transom, and therefore not blocking stern access. Naturally, performance, no lines connected to steering and acting as an emergency rudder are also important. The cost is a killer for many. Surprised that no one has made a near copy of the Hydrovane, perhaps, the Chinese are thinking about it.
 
CAPTAIN FANTASTIC said:
There are a number of windvanes in production performing very well; the biggest advantage and convenience of the Hydrovane is not the performance but the ability to be installed off the centre line, to the left or right of the transom, and therefore not blocking stern access. Naturally, performance, no lines connected to steering and acting as an emergency rudder are also important. The cost is a killer for many. Surprised that no one has made a near copy of the Hydrovane, perhaps, the Chinese are thinking about it.
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The Chinese won't jump on a dozen/year market, limited mostly by electronic autohelms.

I think DIY is very well worth if you belong to the 99.9%, who earns <5k£ in two weeks, just like me. Further, DIY is not just cost saving, by building you'll develop an intimate knowledge of this important piece of gear and you'll likely have the skills and spares(!) ready on board if it fails 1000 leagues offshore.

http://www.faymarine.com/plansite/fay_marine_yacht_pl.htm
 
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