Decent wind vane for classic 35ft sailboat

H35

H35

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A decent wind vane for the open oceans... I have no experience, and here in Norway they are sparse. I know the different ways they function, and for a reason I seem to think the Hydrovane could be just the right one for me. But they are expensive! -And I cannot find many of the for sale used in good condition.

My boat is a slim 35ft classic 70's style from Finland. Only 8,5ft wide. Has a fairly long fin keel (lead), and the rudder has a skeg. Steering is by tiller. It's VERY course stable, exept going with the waves of course.

What should I look for? What should I make up an opinion on before deciding?

Weight is an issue. So is the fact that I have installed a nice little platform back there, and I would really like to keep it (hence Hydrovane...). But I could get rid of it if I had to.

My boat (Artekno H35):

cc01e2ae97d93ad163733a3f646b0150.jpg
 
The choice of windvanes is very nationalistic: The British tend to favour Hydrovanes, the Germans Windpilots, the Americans favour Monitor, etc.

Very few people have extensive experience of different types of windvane on the same boat, so there are few really valid comparative experiences. And then, apart from innate 'nationalistic' preferences, there are other 'deciding factors' which are often 'clinchers' when making the decision, such as weight, lack of lines to cockpit, availability secondhand, price, off centre mounting, perceived usefulness of an immediately available emergency rudder, etc, rather than a simple choice based on steering performance alone.

I've had extensive experience of three (Navik, Monitor, Hydrovane) on different size boats and the Monitor and Hydrovane on the same sort of boat which we used to build. All worked OK with the Navik being the 'best' in terms of the steadiest course in all conditions on a Contessa 32 type boat. It was a superb and with a few spares on board, it steered reliably every inch of the way. (Sadly no longer made).

Now my choice would be the Monitor - it's tough, reliably and steers well. The emergency rudder that fits it, is also a handy bit of kit.

But the Monitor is a significant addition to the transom, and although the Hydrovane is nowhere near as powerful (it's not a servo-pendulum rig), it works well enough as a trimtab to the main locked rudder, and it's lack of lines to the cockpit, it's ability to be mounted off-centre, etc make it a good choice for those who are probably supplementing a reasonable electronic autopilot.
 
Contessa 32 is not so far from the construction of my H35. A little wider and shorter.

So the Hydrovane doesn't pack as much "power" compared to a servo-pendulum, of course. Will I need more power? If so, in what kind of conditions?? I suspect going downwind is always a challenge with less wind over the boat to keep the vane straight.

The Hydrovane shure has a weight/price ratio that kills all other competitors. Less weight for your money - I really fail to see why it should cost so much more. There's a used one one the market here, demanding around 2000 Pounds for a 20+ year old vane(!).

The Monitor is most likely not available around here. I can get a brand new and complete Windpilot Pacific Light delivered from Germany for a fair price though. Less than for the used Hydrovane. Go figure...

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From that photo, it would seem that the boat reaches under spinnaker with a quite neutral helm. That's a good sign if you're trying to self steer!

The Windpilots are servo pendulum and as such they not only powerful, but also have a course damping effect when sailing down wind in waves which is good. As the stern begins to swing around, the servo paddle is moved so the helm applies a corrective force long before the vane detects a change in apparent wind direction. Just like an experienced helm. It makes a huge difference to downwind sailing.
 
H35 said:
I can get a brand new and complete Windpilot Pacific Light delivered from Germany for a fair price though. Less than for the used Hydrovane. Go figure...
Click to expand...

The Pacific Light may be a little...er, light, for a 35-footer, but it will certainly help that you have a very directionally stable boat. Suggest you e-mail Peter Forthman at Windpilot to ask his opinion. He's a mine of info and happy to advise.

I did an Atlantic circuit, mostly solo, on a 32-footer with a Windpilot Pacific: great bit of kit. And light airs not a problem: if there's enough wind to sail, there's enough to steer. Watching them work is mesmerising...so clever and subtle. And the power in the servo system is astonishing, handy in the Trades when a big one belts you on the stern quarter.

Presumably your cockpit is quite small. If you go for a servo-pendulum system, you might consider making a tiller bridle, which liberates a heap of space and puts the windvane lines away from your working area. (The tiller pilot also mounted from bridle to pushpit (or from pushpit to windvane if guiding the Windpilot directly), also freeing-up space.) Image attached: WTFII_03 lo-res.jpg
 

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Motor_Sailor said:
From that photo, it would seem that the boat reaches under spinnaker with a quite neutral helm. That's a good sign if you're trying to self steer!

The Windpilots are servo pendulum and as such they not only powerful, but also have a course damping effect when sailing down wind in waves which is good. As the stern begins to swing around, the servo paddle is moved so the helm applies a corrective force long before the vane detects a change in apparent wind direction. Just like an experienced helm. It makes a huge difference to downwind sailing.
Click to expand...

Here you are teaching me something! :-)
I never thought of the servo paddle actually sensing the movement of the boat and then correcting the course with the main rudder - as indeed like an experienced helm! That feeling when you just sit there and contra-steer on "a feeling" before the boat actually swings around. This downwind and with the rolling waves...

Upwind my boat cuts through the waves like a knife. And even on a sharp reach I must have missed big time on how much sail I put up before the tiller gets heavy.

As you can see:....
https://www.instagram.com/p/BSa8yfXj3Jx/
 
macd said:
The Pacific Light may be a little...er, light, for a 35-footer, but it will certainly help that you have a very directionally stable boat. Suggest you e-mail Peter Forthman at Windpilot to ask his opinion. He's a mine of info and happy to advise.

I did an Atlantic circuit, mostly solo, on a 32-footer with a Windpilot Pacific: great bit of kit. And light airs not a problem: if there's enough wind to sail, there's enough to steer. Watching them work is mesmerising...so clever and subtle.

Presumably your cockpit is quite small. If you go for a servo-pendulum system, you might consider making a tiller bridle, which liberates a heap of space and puts the windvane lines away from your working area. Image attached: View attachment 63987
Click to expand...


I have emailed a little with Peter. He says he knows my boat quite well(?). And he recommends the Pacific Light for it. Although a 35 footer indeed, it's only 3,5 tons empty weight, and as I've said VERY course stable. The only boat I can manage to go down under and put the kettle on, just letting the boat steer itself - in many conditions.
 
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A fine boat you have there H35.

You might look at the Neptune:

http://www.windvane.co.uk/Prices.aspx

They are designed in the UK and made in South Africa. Very similar to the Windpilot but a bit more affordable.
You can see the Stainless Steel Mounting Boss - you only have to make a small fabrication, or have it welded in position, and you could probably attach it to your existing stern platform (if it is rigid of course). It has to be firmly mounted but does not transmit any great turning forces to the hull as these are taken through the steering lines. The whole unit can then be removed with one bolt.
I have seen the complete smaller Neptune stored under the quarter berth of a Contessa 32, completely out of sight and with the berth unaffected. So you should be able to do similar with the Artekno.

I have no great experience with wind vanes but I did use one of these for a season, a couple of long Channel crossings etc, and it worked well.
 
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macd said:
Well, Peter would know. I presume you've downloaded his excellent book from the Windpilot web site?
The full-size Pacific is, of course, rated up to 60-footers.
Click to expand...

WE discussed the Pacific. It's powerful, more than needed. And more expensive. A good reason for choosing it was that he could put it an a bracket over my platform, so I could keep it. But price and weight.... :-/
 
There's a Hydrovane for sale for £1000, in Kent, a reputable person,PM me if interested, no personal connection.
 
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doug748 said:
Very similar to the Windpilot but a bit more affordable.
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There's a very good reason why it's so similar, which is, I suppose, the sincerest form of flattery.

H35 said:
WE discussed the Pacific. It's powerful, more than needed. And more expensive. A good reason for choosing it was that he could put it an a bracket over my platform, so I could keep it. But price and weight.... :-/
Click to expand...

Not thinking of the Pacific Plus, are you? That's the one with its own rudder, and very expensive.
 
doug748 said:
A fine boat you have there H35.

You might look at the Neptune:

http://www.windvane.co.uk/Prices.aspx

They are designed in the UK and made in South Africa. Very similar to the Windpilot but a bit more affordable.
You can see the Stainless Steel Mounting Boss - you only have to make a small fabrication, or have it welded in position, and you could probably attach it to your existing stern platform (if it is rigid of course). It has to be firmly mounted but does not transmit any great turning forces to the hull as these are taken through the steering lines. The whole unit can then be removed with one bolt.
I have seen the complete smaller Windpilot stored under the quarter berth of a Contessa 32, completely out of sight and with the berth unaffected. So you should be able to do similar with the Artekno.

I have no great experience with wind vanes but I did use one of these for a season, a couple of long Channel crossings etc, and it worked well.
Click to expand...

Indeed it looks like it could be fitted ON my platform! I'll look into it.

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Here is a pic of the mounting of my monitor look alike. It is in effect mounted on a gate with a removable hinge pin on each side and braced by the hand rails as shown.

The vane and servo blade not fitted in this pic.

WEB0633_zpsac404f52.jpg


I am currently modifying it by adding an auxiliary rudder as my mains steering is hydraulic.
 
I did some 20,000 miles in a 33 foot long keeler with a monitor. It steered in everything from F1 to F10, connected to a tiller, fantastic downwind and up. Having said that I have to moved to an under deck autopilot and towed generator for about the same money, and it steers just as well. Fine as long as you trust the electronics not to fail....
 
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Nobody has mentioned the Aeries. Another servo pendulum system & the original ones made in UK. Now Denmark I believe. They can be picked up for £ 1500 or sometimes less. I have the lift up version on a 31 ft boat because I can remove it for racing in a few seconds. However, that version is very heavy & if you stick to a standard version you would have a well made system that has been well tested over the years. Mounting is fairly simple. if you can get a Denmark made version spares would be easier to obtain (although I have never needed any as it is built like the proverbial brick SH)

With my lift up version it would be dead easy to make an emergency rudder to fit the mounting bracket in place of the vane so one might consider that a big plus. The bracket is fairly strong. If I was going offshore I would almost certainly make one.
 
Peter has reconsidered the Pacific Light. Saying since I'm heading south my boat will be much heavier, so he now advice me to choose the Pacific.
He can make a bracket for me so it can be mounted over the platform. Price is another thing though...

Pacific on a bracket:

vandeStadt 490.jpg
 
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