DECENT replacement G4 LED's (maybe one for JFM?)

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OK, so for the past season i've been using cheap G4 'flat disc type' LED's as a replacement for the halogens. I have hit tipping point! Even the 'warm white' off a nasty yellow light, which is not consistent (maybe this is the disc though... I should have gotten a circular one as the top of the fitting has reflective material)

Anyhow, can anyone give a link to replacement G4's that offer as close to halogen as possible? At this rate I don't care what they cost, I just need me some nice looking light. I'll need about 16.
 
If you limit yourself to LEDs that will fit into an existing G4 fitting you are doomed to horrible poor quality light. None of the quality LED makers make bulbs; they make the entire fixture so that they can control the complete light output and manage the heat from the LEDs. They typically use high quality LEDs from Cree or Phillips Limiteds. If you get G4 replacements, you can only get the rubbish stuff made in china with low quality low CRI inconsistent LEDs and invariably the light quality from these is terrible

You say "even" the warm white isn't nice, as if warm white ought somehow better than cold. It isn't. Aim for 3200-3400 kelvins for your interior, to begin the process of getting away from the idea that warm is good.

You need to be aiming for mid 80s CRI, which none of the cheapie G4s will get anywhere near. Cantalupi catalogue is a good place to start for high quality fixtures. I have the Dessert 80mm square units inside but any from that range is exceptionally good. Once you fit these and see what high quality LED light is like, you will think "Wow!" and never go back to the G4 eBay stuff. www.improducts.co.uk are a good cantalupi supplier.

I avoided the bad news till last: think £75+ per light fixture! If you don't want that, take a look at the Quick catalogue. I'm not Quick's biggest fan generally and their LED light fixtures aren't a patch on cantaloupi's, but at much less £££ they aren't too bad - I lived with them for a week on a charter boat recently and thought they were pretty decent, and Fairline fit them OEM on Sq78 and perhaps other models (though not to my boat).
 
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I recently replaced the lights in the kids cabin on my T40 with Nauticled bulbs. To my surprise it was hard to tell the difference after fitting them. Colour was the same. I fitted one in the toilet as well and if you want to see which one it is you need to look into the lens. I did fit the disk type. Given the result for me it would not be worth it to change the fittings. But then we keep lights to a minimum to keep the mozzies away :)

http://nauticled.nl/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/NauticLED-2015-web.pdf

Rob
 
jfm - Thanks for the info, wasn't expecting such a comprehensive reply, cheers :) I don't think I want to go down the road of replacing fittings.... probably due to laziness. That said, i'm going to remove the current fitting this weekend and measure the diameter of the hole... just incase I want to splurge :) Given that it's only the saloon that bothers me, I could potentially only have to replace 5 fittings, if I can get similar looking ones to OE.

rlw - Just about to look through that PDF, it sounds like it could be a good alternative.
 
rlw - was it the G4 Premium or Pro that you got?

I'm wondering whether the disc or the omni bulbs would be better, given that there is reflective material inside the fittings.
 
MartynG said:
I am equally concerned not to waste money on led's that might prove to be unsuitable. Do any of the bulbs sold by 'Bedazzled' look suitable?
http://www.bedazzled.uk.com/12v_LED_Bulb_Replacement.htm#G4Ttype

I have a good many light fittings. Tempted to replace the bulbs in the man saloon , leaving the original halogen bulbs in the cabins which are used for relatively short periods.
Click to expand...

I have used LED's from Bedazzled on my current and previous boat and have been very happy with them. They are individually fused, claim not to put out any electromagnetic interference and are voltage stabilised (so they won't change in brightness with the engine / battery charger on / off). The Warm White LED's seem to me to be pretty much an identical colour to the usual 10W G4 halogens that come in many boat lamps. Simply select an appropriate LED for each of your fittings and choose the number of SMD's to suit the application. The more SMD's, the brighter the output - typical 10W halogens seem to match about 100 Lumen LED's but I went for the 10 SMD / 152 Lumen LED's and added a few extra light fittings as well...!!!

Even if you only use the cabin lights for short periods, the battery drain can be considerable if you are running multiple 10W halogens and they run very hot too. If battery drain is a potential issue, I would simply replace the lot. However, for the cost, I would recommend buying one or two different sizes and trying them in your fittings first (to compare their relative brightness) before you make a bulk purchase to replace them all.
 
jfm said:
Once you fit these and see what high quality LED light is like, you will think "Wow!" and never go back to the G4 eBay stuff.
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LOL, I found a solution to that dilemma, already years ago, back in the days when I kept watching at better/bigger boats: I just stopped making comparisons! :cool:

Fwiw, I also went for some G4 round bulbs (from Bedazzled).
When I received them, I firstly replaced 2 out of the 4 halogen bulbs that I had above the saloon table, and as rlw said, I had to look straight at the lamps to tell the difference.
Anyway, of course someone might well have eyes more fussy than mine about colour rendering. For them, my 2c would be to stick to halogen lights. :)
 
Bedazzled are a long established online supplier and good at what they do. But all of those fittings are low CRI stuff using the 5050 and similar LEDs that you would use for, say, edge lighting in the nosing of staircases. You wouldn't use them for direct lighting of living spaces if you were seeking high quality. Bedazzled don't even mention CRI let alone give the specifications for it, and they use "warm" and "cold" rather than commit to a kelvin number. These lights are perfectly ok if you want to do things at low cost, or do edge lighting, or just light up your cabin so you don't trip over, but the quality of the light is a million miles from what you get from a proper high quality LED fixture. Each to their own - I was answering the question based on the "DECENT" stipulation in the title! :D
 
Replaced all my halogen G4's last year. Tried quite a few different types and didn't find any that gave a similar light output or that we were happy with; until I bought a trial couple from LEDhut.

Ended up with 150L's in the saloon headlining and 120L's in the cabins

.....and these in the galley (just cut the mains adaptor and wire into 12volts) http://trade.ledhut.co.uk/new-led-under-shelf-wardrobe-light-kit-50cm.html

5* recommendation from me.
 
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jfm said:
If you limit yourself to LEDs that will fit into an existing G4 fitting you are doomed to horrible poor quality light. None of the quality LED makers make bulbs; they make the entire fixture so that they can control the complete light output and manage the heat from the LEDs. They typically use high quality LEDs from Cree or Phillips Limiteds. If you get G4 replacements, you can only get the rubbish stuff made in china with low quality low CRI inconsistent LEDs and invariably the light quality from these is terrible

You say "even" the warm white isn't nice, as if warm white ought somehow better than cold. It isn't. Aim for 3200-3400 kelvins for your interior, to begin the process of getting away from the idea that warm is good.

You need to be aiming for mid 80s CRI, which none of the cheapie G4s will get anywhere near. Cantalupi catalogue is a good place to start for high quality fixtures. I have the Dessert 80mm square units inside but any from that range is exceptionally good. Once you fit these and see what high quality LED light is like, you will think "Wow!" and never go back to the G4 eBay stuff. www.improducts.co.uk are a good cantalupi supplier.

I avoided the bad news till last: think £75+ per light fixture! If you don't want that, take a look at the Quick catalogue. I'm not Quick's biggest fan generally and their LED light fixtures aren't a patch on cantaloupi's, but at much less £££ they aren't too bad - I lived with them for a week on a charter boat recently and thought they were pretty decent, and Fairline fit them OEM on Sq78 and perhaps other models (though not to my boat).
Click to expand...

I have recently bought a few of these on recommendation, any feed back from others gratefully received as to how good they should be.

http://timage.eu/site/sextans-inter...tans-qb.html#/sextans_qb-chrome_3200k_smd_led
 
jfm said:
Each to their own - I was answering the question based on the "DECENT" stipulation in the title! :D
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Hehe, I know you genuinely did - in fact, that's exactly the same thing I did too, hence my initial comment about comparisons...
Kinda funny, innit? :)
 
Note that any LED that you are intending to use on your boat needs to be tolerant of a wide range of voltages. Many LED's, especially those designed for domestic use, will be expected to be powered through a transformer that produces a constant 12v - a boat's battery may run down way lower than 12v and, significantly, will run well over 14v when on charge. Domestic LED's will not tolerate those sorts of voltages for long and will fail, possibly catastrophically.

LED's designed for boats will typically accept 10v-30v inputs and are internally regulated to provide a constant voltage. If you are unsure as to whether any given LED is suitable, simply try switching the battery charger on / off whilst the LED is on - a voltage regulated LED will not change in brightness.

This is where individual fusing of the LED's is also helpful - if a fused LED fails 'closed circuit' it will simply go out, whilst a non-fused one will trip the lighting curcuit breaker and all the lights will go out!
 
MapisM said:
Hehe, I know you genuinely did - in fact, that's exactly the same thing I did too, hence my initial comment about comparisons...
Kinda funny, innit? :)
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Tee hee! I would like to install Cantalupi in say your sitting room or office or kitchen at home, then a few days later swap them for Bedazzled round disc PCB "G4 bulbs" with 5050 SMDs mounted into secondhand halogen fixtures, again for a few days. I'll bet you a Naiad STAR upgrade that you'll love the cantalupis and loathe the bedazzled G4 replacements after such an experiment :D:D

Those G4 things look ok initially, but the white light they emit consists of a peak of red, a peak of green and a peak of blue light. Unlike daylight and high CRI LEDs, there are no amber, orange, cyan, purple wavelengths in the mix. The light coming out of the fixture might look ok, but when it reflects off surfaces especially complex surfaces like human skin, the look is subtly but importantly different. It is kind of "flat" and doesn't show colours as daylight (and halogen) does, and after a while you begin to notice that flatness.
 
jfm said:
Those G4 things look ok initially, but the white light they emit consists of a peak of red, a peak of green and a peak of blue light. Unlike daylight and high CRI LEDs, there are no amber, orange, cyan, purple wavelengths in the mix. The light coming out of the fixture might look ok, but when it reflects off surfaces especially complex surfaces like human skin, the look is subtly but importantly different. It is kind of "flat" and doesn't show colours as daylight (and halogen) does, and after a while you begin to notice that flatness.
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Thanks for that explination.

What do you think of rlw's suggestion: http://nauticled.nl/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/NauticLED-2015-web.pdf
 
As for voltage, I agree that plenty of LEDs are rated 10-30v so they are very tolerant. It's halogens that give you problems with over voltage - they fail sooner. You can buy 28v G4 halogens for 24v bolts to help cure this, but of course they look rubbish when you are at anchor with no genset and down to 23v on your batteries. On on my previous 3 halogen boats I had voltage stabilisers that took the 24-28v input and converted it to a stable 24v. The stabiliser with a big thing, the size of a battery charger with 2 cooling fans. I'm so glad to be rid of such hardware on my current boat
 
alt said:
Thanks for that explination.

What do you think of rlw's suggestion: http://nauticled.nl/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/NauticLED-2015-web.pdf
Click to expand...

I like the look/spec of the Palma/Hydra/COB fixtures in the PDF catalogue, except that I think it is a mistake to go as warm as their 2700 kelvins. I would start at 3200 for interior lighting. We humans are taking a while to get out of our fuddy-duddy desire for 2700 amber but once you "see the light" so to speak you'll not want to go warmer than 3200K if you're trying to create high end interior lighting

I don't know about that stock light linked to on the Timage website because there is no data provided. I would expect the 5050 LED version to have a disappointing CRI but I do not know the specs of the "Power LED" version. Timage are a bit annoying in suppressing the data from the source manufacturer. At £35+VAT it is at least reassuringly expensive. I think the cantalupi Deserts are nearer £65 nowadays (they use the best Cree LEDs). They were around £100 when fitted to my boat, and I have c120 of them. Such is the quality of the light I have zero regrets about spending £10k+ on them and would for sure do the same again in another boat build
 
jfm said:
I like the look/spec of the Palma/Hydra/COB fixtures in the PDF catalogue, except that I think it is a mistake to go as warm as their 2700 kelvins. I would start at 3200 for interior lighting. We humans are taking a while to get out of our fuddy-duddy desire for 2700 amber but once you "see the light" so to speak you'll not want to go warmer than 3200K if you're trying to create high end interior lighting
Click to expand...

I'll trust you word re 2700k vs. 3200k ... pitty that the LED's rlw posted are 2700k only
 
I'm going to send a query to http://nauticled.nl/

For the toilet, i'm wondering should I order 'natural white' or 'warm white' - I have no issue with the toilet being bright, so long as it's not that coldddd white that the naff LED's give
 
I just noticed there are bargains on ebay from seller cantalupi_usa. Deserts are $16 plus sensibly priced shipping. They might be leftovers, and in nickel not mirror polished frames, but the sellers store is worth a look
 
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