Death in Biscay

[jeanne]

June PBO reports another death of an experienced yachtsman, lost in the attempt to transfer to a liferaft from a yacht that was still afloat several days later.
Is it too much to say that his death was caused because he had a liferaft?
I would dearly love to see the stats. showing how many yachtsmens lives have been genuinely saved by a raft, not counting those whose boats weathered the storm unaided, and how many have been lost in the attempt to abandon. The '79 Fastnet is the obvious example, but how many more are there? Even when the abandoned yacht sank, so apparently justifying the decision to abandon, how many of those would have seen out the gale, given the undivided attention of the crew.
I wonder if the name 'liferaft' has a subliminal effect. Would you be quite so keen to jump in it if it was called a 'disaster raft'? And would the victims jump in so quickly if the product was not recomended by every authority?
I exclude rafts fitted to things like ferries and aircraft, where large scale disasters may call for them, and where the 'users' have no chance of affecting their fates by more sensible actions.

If ever a product needed a 'Government health warning ' attached, saying something like 'do not use in bad weather', this is it.

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[Sybarite]

There is a golden rule. You only use the liferaft when you have to step UP into it.

John

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[Twister_Ken]

A well argued case

I too would dearly love to see stats. In the scenarios you run through in your head, I think serious fire is the only one that would have me reaching for the liferaft before the decks were awash.

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[Gunfleet]

Re: A well argued case

But wasn't the import of the argument that the SAR made the decison? You'd need to be VERY strong willed to tell the SAR 'thanks but no thanks'

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[Evadne]

They always say "The ship is your best liferaft" on sea survival courses. Mind you, it's easier to say that when looking at the statistics in a classroom than it is in the middle of Biscay on a sinking yacht.

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[Aeolus_IV]

step up to life raft..

We had heard this long before we bought our boat, and while we do carry a suitable life raft on board, it is in our minds very definitely the last resort (having read as many disaster reports as we can). Now whether we can control our actions at the point of crissis and do the right thing will have to be seen, if the worst happens.

Cold, stress and tiredness do not make the best basis for making life shaping decisions. It needs a stong leader to keep control of the situation and people, keeping potential panic at arms length so that decisions can be made objectively, and keep the crew working together to implement them.

All easier said than done. Has anyone been there and had to do this?

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[AndrewB]

Re: A well argued case

Yes, that was my reaction. It was his call for help that ultimately caused his death - without, he probably would have survived. An unfortunate case.

I doubt there was any question he might have refused help, but on the issue of "no thanks", one thinks of the Satori case that was featured in "The Perfect Storm". US Coastguards forced an evacuation against the wishes of the skipper, in very dangerous circumstances. Yet the yacht survived unscathed to wash up on a beach some days later. (<A target="_blank" HREF=http://world.std.com/~kent/satori/index.html>See here</A> for the skipper's story).



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[ccscott49]

The old saying "never abandon your ship, until you are up to your waist in water, standing on the masthead" Poor man, I feel for his family. Everything you need for your survival is onboard your boat, think of that before getting into the liferaft.

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[babylocked]

Re: A well argued case

IMHO.
Satori is a slightly different case, as were similar events during the Fastnet and Sydney-Hobart.
In those sort of situations, with the rescue services stretched beyond the limit, it's often a case of get you off while we're here because we might not get back later if things change.



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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Re: A well argued case

Agreed, but if I had faith in my vessel as skipper, I would not leave, Ray was left between a rock and hard place. The crew should be up for mutiny. If his report is true of course.

Lose his ticket for not leaving his vessel? I guess that is what happens without a long history of seafaring.

The ONLY person who decidedes to abondon ship in any circumstance is the Skipper!

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[billmacfarlane]

From the comfort of a centrally heated house , it's easy to pontificate about all the old adages and their variations - always step up into a liferaft , wait to the decks are awash etc, - but in conditions as utterly horrendous as what that poor man was experiencing would we really think like that ???? If the chance was there for a rescue would you really reject it and stay with your boat. That poor man tragically didn't and I suspect a lot of us wouldn't either.

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[jeanne]

The thing that made me think most in recent years is a rescue in the Indian Ocean carried out by our sister ship 'Avon Grace'.

He was on his way to Sri Lanka when a distress call was made by a boat a hard days sail upwind astern of him. The boat was taking water fast and the pumps not keeping up. Yachties on SSBs at anchor at Sri Lanka called the emergency services, and the navy set off immediately for the casualty, but ETA was over 24 hours. The communications were well organised between yachties and navy. Jim turned round into wind and sea and the casualty piled on engine and sail and they headed towards each other. When Avon Grace reached the general area (no radios now - water had reached the batteries) at near dusk, he felt they had failed,especially as sea conditions were not good, but 5 minutes later he saw the yacht, motored over and the husband and wife crew stepped onto his deck. 15 minutes later the boat sailed itself under....If they had got in the liferaft, they would have been considerably further from help and adrift- harder to find. I'd like to think I had the nerve to do this, there is nothing to lose until the boat is nearly under. We don't carry a raft having seen the results of poor/no service. We carry a hard dinghy with loads of buoyancy plus our inflatable and hope to God we never have to use it.

As a postscript, the wife, being very depresses stepped off Avon Grace when on watch in the night..... but was picked up by the navy. Alls well that ends well.

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[Gunfleet]

Fantastic story. THe things people do.

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[Gunfleet]

Re: A well argued case

Julian, without wishing to pick an arguement (you know I respect you) 'without a long history of seafaring' does scant justice to our American cousins. THey got there by boat. For generations they fed themselves by boat. During the Napoleonic wars American frigates gave our shipping a torrid time. How long does a 'long history' have to last?American seafaring shares our history. All of which is not to say that the US coastguard wasn't bossy to Satori. They were appaling

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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Re: A well argued case

I accept what you say, but I find it hard that a nation has forgotten that the man in charge of his own vessel is the only one who can make judgment on his safety. How would you feel if the lifeboat pulled up to you and said you must abondon your vessel, the weather is far to bad for you to stay out, if you don't we will remove all your licences, pretty much stopping you ever getting insurance again.

Also, could you imagine the insurance battle that would ensue.

Two cases here where the skipper should have remained on board, hundreds of other cases too no doubt. Does the USA coastguard really not read accounts of these!

I have just read somewhere else that the woman who put out the mayday without skippers permission was given a US coastguard medal for "bravery and seamanship"

I have not found this link myself, but will post when I do!

but I did find this <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.uscg.mil/news/perfectstorm/sail.avi>satori video</A>


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