Dealing with a badly worn teak deck

[scubaman]

The background to the story is that ever since we bought the current boat, the worn teak on the bathing platform has bugged me. It’s teak veneer on marine ply and the ply was already showing at some places when we got the boat. As you’d expect, it hasn’t gotten any better over the years and as after last summer the veneer was pretty much gone, I finally made the decision of doing something about it.

The local brit boat dealer recommended a boat carpenter in Estonia, whom I contacted in the autumn.

A couple of weeks ago they came over to do the templates and partly due to time constraints we agreed that I’d remove the old deck. A lot of work it has to be said.

I’m having the bathing platform done and the side decks. I then made the decision, which I might regret later, of doing the cockpit only partially. The reason being that from the transom gate, the teak was worn through (as that part gets the most traffic), but other areas of the cockpit are still in relatively good condition. This is partly due to the fact that we keep carpets to protect the teak from the table and chairs. So as there was a seam in the rounding teak panel just where our carpeted area ends, I’m only having the part left to it renewed. The seam is just behind the the first fly step’s stb end. Also on the previous pic at lower left corner next to the 'L' shaped teak part.

I’m expecting color variance at first but also that it will even out after the first year. If not, I can always do the rest later.

There was some collateral damage as you can see in this pic. Should I put gel coat on these or just let the teak glue take care of it?

I went out and bought a Fein tool in the vein hope that it would help in the removing part, but it seems a chisel and a hammer are the only sensible tools for the job. Instead, the Fein tool did come up trumps in sanding the fly steps and the rope locker lids.

Any and all suggestions and remarks regarding the job at hand are welcome.

I had a long hard look at the synthetic alternatives but as the carpenter only works with real teak, that's what I'm having.

I’ll update this thread as my teak project evolves. The installation begins mid April.

 

[kashurst]

If you decide to take off the rest of the teak, use a router with a big wide bit in it. It takes minutes to remove the old stuff. Re the chips in the gel coat, just fill with epoxy or if only a few mm deep gel coat filler. It should all blend in and look great when its done

 

[jrudge]

I would think very carefully about splitting the cockpit.

Unless you were very very lucky the difference will be clear.

The boat from the steps looks like a Fairline ? The original factory teak is supplied pre made by the supplier ( can't recall the name) and I would imagine you would get a faster and cheaper and maybe better result by approaching the oem supplier and shipping it out to Estonia.

 

[petem]

I would think very carefully about splitting the cockpit.

Unless you were very very lucky the difference will be clear.

The boat from the steps looks like a Fairline ? The original factory teak is supplied pre made by the supplier ( can't recall the name) and I would imagine you would get a faster and cheaper and maybe better result by approaching the oem supplier and shipping it out to Estonia.

Yep, Wattsons supplied the original teak and can supply replacements at a very competitive price. See...
http://www.fairlineownersclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3020 (sponsored ad).

 

[superheat6k]

When its all done consider two coats of Semco to keep it like new, and then refresh every 6 months. £35 for a quart can, so not cheap but peanuts compared with a new deck.

Here's mine before and after, and even 4 months since I applied the Semco and despite just a bit of rain, it is still looking good.

 

[scubaman]

Thank you for the hints/tips gentlemen.

I enquired the OEM route from the Finnish Fairline dealer but they were unaware of such possibility, must talk to them at the Finnish boat show next week. I had also missed that on Pete's excellent site. Well, no matter, work is under way now.

Jim Pritchard has always spoken very warmly of using Semco (especially with older decks) but for now I think I'm going to go with 'bare' teak and 2-part it once a year. Your deck does look nice, Superheat. Btw, there is a Corvette in the same shed I have my boat. I must talk to the owner about your owners association.

 

[MapisM]

Here's mine before and after, and even 4 months since I applied the Semco and despite just a bit of rain, it is still looking good.

Wow, that's really impressive. A couple of questions if you don't mind:
1) How should it be applied on a freshly sanded deck, is any cleaner preparation still necessary?
2) Did you notice even the slightest seams degradation?

I'm particularly concerned about seams because for you guys with GRP decks covered with teak, leaks are not a major issue - aside from possibly ruining the teak layer itself.
But in decks built with structural teak planks, leaks mean that fresh water can possibly stagnate somewhere inside, eventually rotting planks and frames.... :ambivalence:

 

[scubaman]

Wow, that's really impressive. A couple of questions if you don't mind:
1) How should it be applied on a freshly sanded deck, is any cleaner preparation still necessary?
2) Did you notice even the slightest seams degradation?

I'm particularly concerned about seams because for you guys with GRP decks covered with teak, leaks are not a major issue - aside from possibly ruining the teak layer itself.
But in decks built with structural teak planks, leaks mean that fresh water can possibly stagnate somewhere inside, eventually rotting planks and frames.... :ambivalence:

P, I was about to ask you about Sikaflex as I remember you were having challenges with it and that there was a discussion regarding a possibly bad patch of the product. Have you or anyone else had confirmation to a wider spread problem with the product. I'm asking as the guy I'm using insists on Sika.

 

[MapisM]

Yep, this is the thread where we discussed that.
My deck is being recaulked right now, and after discussing long and hard with my yard, I accepted to use Sika again.
Actually, based on the feedbacks I collected not only here in the forum, but also from one of the very few guys still crazy enough to build timber boats, I would have rather used the TDS.
But my yard always used the Sika, are much more confident with it, and accepted to do the job again FoC - which makes me think that they are confident to not have to do it again in another couple of years....!

And aside from the possibility that the previous seams went bad due to a bad/old batch, there's another consideration that makes me think/hope Sika can last longer this time: after the recaulking two years ago, my yard used some teak oil on the freshly recaulked and sanded deck (I'm not even sure of what stuff they used exactly), and I suspect that it might have played a role in the seams degradation.
Which is also the reason for my question 2 above...

 

[Fantasie 19]

Re the chips in the gel coat, just fill with epoxy or if only a few mm deep gel coat filler. It should all blend in and look great when its done

..or Milliput...

 

[benjenbav]

Looks flipping cold in pic 1 with the black bag on the ice...

 

[scubaman]

Looks flipping cold in pic 1 with the black bag on the ice...

Lol, it was actually one of the warmest days in January. Maybe +1 C. It has been flipping cold though, for almost the whole of January it's been around -30C.

 

[jfm]

Hi Scubaman,
Good going. I didn't realise you had the plywood decking - bad luck.

I don't think your idea of doing half the cockpit will work. The veneer for the veneer-on-ply is made in a machine like a big pencil sharpener - the log rotates and the sheet of teak is formed. This creates a completely different grain pattern from cutting teak strips @6mm thick or whatever, so I fear the two halves of your deck will never match. You really need to do the whole thing. I realise that is easier for me to type than for you to do!

I've heard a router is best way to remove old deck - never done it myself. It leaves just the few tram lines to remove with a chisel

Wattsons are the OEM suppliers and have the patterns to make sheets of 6mm thick solid teak. http://www.teakdecking.co.uk/

Personally I would use TDS 440 caulk. This has more silicone and less polyurethane than the sika/Saba/ etc products (which are fine just for sticking the sheet down, btw). I have no complaints after 3 years of 440 on my boat and I had plenty of complaints about the previous Saba polyurethane caulk. That said, the problem is sun so you may get away with it at N latitudes. 440 is the caulk of choice for super yacht builders. It is more expensive, but some of that is waiting time as it has to cure a few days before being sanded off. It comes in grey and white, as well as black.

Those gelcoat chips will just fill with adhesive so you don't need to do anything. If you had the time you could wipe a scraper of white gelcoat over, but I don't think it is important

Good luck!

 

[superheat6k]

Thank you for the hints/tips gentlemen.

I enquired the OEM route from the Finnish Fairline dealer but they were unaware of such possibility, must talk to them at the Finnish boat show next week. I had also missed that on Pete's excellent site. Well, no matter, work is under way now.

Jim Pritchard has always spoken very warmly of using Semco (especially with older decks) but for now I think I'm going to go with 'bare' teak and 2-part it once a year. Your deck does look nice, Superheat. Btw, there is a Corvette in the same shed I have my boat. I must talk to the owner about your owners association.

Yes please. 'Control Tower' is the main contact on this forum, or email to corvetteboat@virginmedia.com the website address is listed below.

 

[superheat6k]

Wow, that's really impressive. A couple of questions if you don't mind:
1) How should it be applied on a freshly sanded deck, is any cleaner preparation still necessary?
2) Did you notice even the slightest seams degradation?

I'm particularly concerned about seams because for you guys with GRP decks covered with teak, leaks are not a major issue - aside from possibly ruining the teak layer itself.
But in decks built with structural teak planks, leaks mean that fresh water can possibly stagnate somewhere inside, eventually rotting planks and frames.... :ambivalence:

I would expect on freshly sanded timber a clean with spirit to remove the dust, then apply is liberally. I use foam brushes.

The Semco seems to be a very thin sealer that penetrates then sets well into the grain. I would not expect it to cause a caulk separation, but I have only recently started using it. It has been recommended to repeat the treatment every 6 months, but after 3 months since application and the wettest late Autumn / early Winter period I can remember the deck still looks like it has just been put on.

I do have one area that has a slight depression and forms a small rain puddle, where I have applied three coats, and this area looks fine. Still thinking about how to fill the depression, as I don't fancy the idea of digging the deck up. I thought about some form of wax like filler but want something that would reasonably blend in. The area is approx 12" long x 6" wide x 1/4" deep.

Any ideas welcome that do not involve damaging or cutting into the deck.

One way around it might simply be an awning to cover the raised after 'poop' deck, and this would also provide somewhere to store the deck furniture out of sight.

I have since sprayed the whole boat with Patio Magic to keep the green algae at bay, and haven't noticed anything adverse from having both products on together.

 

[scubaman]

Hi Scubaman,
Good going. I didn't realise you had the plywood decking - bad luck.

I don't think your idea of doing half the cockpit will work. The veneer for the veneer-on-ply is made in a machine like a big pencil sharpener - the log rotates and the sheet of teak is formed. This creates a completely different grain pattern from cutting teak strips @6mm thick or whatever, so I fear the two halves of your deck will never match. You really need to do the whole thing. I realise that is easier for me to type than for you to do!

I've heard a router is best way to remove old deck - never done it myself. It leaves just the few tram lines to remove with a chisel

Wattsons are the OEM suppliers and have the patterns to make sheets of 6mm thick solid teak. http://www.teakdecking.co.uk/

Personally I would use TDS 440 caulk. This has more silicone and less polyurethane than the sika/Saba/ etc products (which are fine just for sticking the sheet down, btw). I have no complaints after 3 years of 440 on my boat and I had plenty of complaints about the previous Saba polyurethane caulk. That said, the problem is sun so you may get away with it at N latitudes. 440 is the caulk of choice for super yacht builders. It is more expensive, but some of that is waiting time as it has to cure a few days before being sanded off. It comes in grey and white, as well as black.

Those gelcoat chips will just fill with adhesive so you don't need to do anything. If you had the time you could wipe a scraper of white gelcoat over, but I don't think it is important

Good luck!

Hi J,

Thanks for the feedback. What you and others have said about the mixed deck and esp the teak grains makes sense.
I'm going to review my options with the carpenter (and check Wattsons as well for backup). The project is a on a tight dead-line which I don't want to compromise so let's wee how it plays out. In any case I can live with it for a year as we keep carpets just over where the join will be.

 

[scubaman]

I do have one area that has a slight depression and forms a small rain puddle, where I have applied three coats, and this area looks fine. Still thinking about how to fill the depression, as I don't fancy the idea of digging the deck up. I thought about some form of wax like filler but want something that would reasonably blend in. The area is approx 12" long x 6" wide x 1/4" deep.

Any ideas welcome that do not involve damaging or cutting into the deck.

Hmm, do you know what has caused the depression and is the deck spongy when you step on the depressed area? Can you access the area from underneath?

 

[jrudge]

Hi J,

Thanks for the feedback. What you and others have said about the mixed deck and esp the teak grains makes sense.
I'm going to review my options with the carpenter (and check Wattsons as well for backup). The project is a on a tight dead-line which I don't want to compromise so let's wee how it plays out. In any case I can live with it for a year as we keep carpets just over where the join will be.

But remember when you then do the other half ... that will be a year later from a different batch etc and that won't match either!

Call Wattsons ...

 

[scubaman]

But remember when you then do the other half ... that will be a year later from a different batch etc and that won't match either!

Call Wattsons ...

Both sides being from solid teak I'd expect the difference to even out in a year or two. But obviously don't know for sure...

Thanks, I already emailed them and got a reply . Just need to coordinate things with my guy and see what is the best way forward.

Cheers!

 

[jfm]

Both sides being from solid teak I'd expect the difference to even out in a year or two. But obviously don't know for sure...

Thanks, I already emailed them and got a reply . Just need to coordinate things with my guy and see what is the best way forward.

Cheers!

Wattsons are good. As well as the decks I've bought from them indirectly thru Fairline I have also ordered plenty of custom items directly, and in my experience they keep to their delivery promises and are a good team. You get good email communication with folks who know their onions

They could likely make your aft deck in say 4 parts rather than 2, or whatever, to make shipping easier. You cant see the joins when it is installed of course