Day Skipper courses...

WestWittering

WestWittering

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We are just researching the local sailing schools to book our Day Skipper Practical. To say it is bewildering is an understatement!

Located in Chichester, there are many schools within 20 miles, but how do you judge who is good? The ones I am striking off the list immediately ask for a good knowledge of navigation before I attend, others want me to be a competent sailor and sail trimmer before I attend to command respect from my 'crew' WTF?

AIUI this is a BASIC sailing course enabling me to sail my boat competently, in daylight hours to local ports... I am not intending to cross the Atlantic on the back of a Day Skipper ticket. I can navigate - ie I can get to where I am going. I can sail - they go up and power the boat along. Am I expecting too much to want to be taught how to do these things 'properly' on a course?

I have no objection to being asked to read various tomes from cover to cover in advance and would be perfectly willing to do so. I struggle with navigation though and want to be able to do the calculations without a problem and without using the GPS. Position fixing & dead reckoning, tidal currents, etc basic rudimentary knowledge, but am I wrong to expect these things to be taught?

Other questions - Theory before Practical? Practical before Theory?

Home or Away? Would I get more from a course overseas in the sunshine or here on the home turf? When I did my tech diving courses here in the UK, usually in Jan/Feb our mantra was train hard, dive easy. When I switched from Open Circuit to a Closed Circuit Rebreather, I was persuaded to train in Egypt. Wow - it was great! Instead of longing to get out of the water and regain feeling in my hands & feet, I got more from the course with increased time in the water. So another option is to go to the Canary Islands and do the course there in November.


If anyone can recommend a really, really good school locally, I would be grateful. I don't mind going out in all weather, but don't want to suffer from course cancellation etc. Would like to do it all in one hit, theory & practical, but I am really looking for advice!

Tah

Di
 
I can't help you with schools on the South Coast as I did mine in Turkey, what I did find though is that although I didn't do the theory exam beforehand, I did cover all the material and this helped a great deal. If you have the time to do the full theory course first I would definitely recommend this, as it allows you to spend more time on the practical aspects when on the boat. Many schools offer a combined course, so it may be worth checking that out.

If you have the basics then I suspect you may not find the Comp Crew course overly rewarding, so are probably right to go straight for Day Skipper, that said, get a copy of the RYA book anyway and have a quick read through, just in case there are areas you haven't knowledge gaps.

As for how capable you have to be to do the course, all I had was a week's experience from the previous year, plus the theory. That said, I also have a RIB on the Thames, so have some boat handling etc. experience from that, so maybe that helped a bit!
 
WestWittering said:
We are just researching the local sailing schools to book our Day Skipper Practical. To say it is bewildering is an understatement!

Located in Chichester, there are many schools within 20 miles, but how do you judge who is good? The ones I am striking off the list immediately ask for a good knowledge of navigation before I attend, others want me to be a competent sailor and sail trimmer before I attend to command respect from my 'crew' WTF?

AIUI this is a BASIC sailing course enabling me to sail my boat competently, in daylight hours to local ports... I am not intending to cross the Atlantic on the back of a Day Skipper ticket. I can navigate - ie I can get to where I am going. I can sail - they go up and power the boat along. Am I expecting too much to want to be taught how to do these things 'properly' on a course?

I have no objection to being asked to read various tomes from cover to cover in advance and would be perfectly willing to do so. I struggle with navigation though and want to be able to do the calculations without a problem and without using the GPS. Position fixing & dead reckoning, tidal currents, etc basic rudimentary knowledge, but am I wrong to expect these things to be taught?

Other questions - Theory before Practical? Practical before Theory?

Home or Away? Would I get more from a course overseas in the sunshine or here on the home turf? When I did my tech diving courses here in the UK, usually in Jan/Feb our mantra was train hard, dive easy. When I switched from Open Circuit to a Closed Circuit Rebreather, I was persuaded to train in Egypt. Wow - it was great! Instead of longing to get out of the water and regain feeling in my hands & feet, I got more from the course with increased time in the water. So another option is to go to the Canary Islands and do the course there in November.


If anyone can recommend a really, really good school locally, I would be grateful. I don't mind going out in all weather, but don't want to suffer from course cancellation etc. Would like to do it all in one hit, theory & practical, but I am really looking for advice!

Tah

Di
Click to expand...

You'll really need to do the Day Skipper theory course before you do the practical. The DS practical is more about making sure you're safe on a boat and can manage a crew. There's not time on the practical course to teach navigation, tides, lights and all the rest of the stuff you need. They make up a separate course in their own right.

Edit: Sunsail do both as a 9 day combined course

http://www.sunsail.co.uk/sailing-schools/level-2/rya-day-skipper-9-day-combined
 
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AuldSot said:
You'll really need to do the Day Skipper theory course before you do the practical. The DS practical is more about making sure you're safe on a boat and can manage a crew. There's not time on the practical course to teach navigation, tides, lights and all the rest of the stuff you need. They make up a separate course in their own right.
Click to expand...

+1.

Do the theory at night school over the winter and then the practical next year. When I did mine, the nine of us who did the theory over the winter clubbed together, chartered two boats and did the practical together too.

Started off as 9 disperate strangers, keep in touch with most of them still.

HF
 
Couple of things i'd suggest

Dont do it aboard, the UK is tidal and more challenging (usually) in it's weather, if you can sail here then you're good to go elsewhere

A lot of the day skipper theory course will also include tidal calculations and you'll get your qualification for tidal waters.

If you think your going to be especially weak in one area say navigation, have a look at the plethora of guides and work books that are out there before you start the course if if you dont "get" it straight off they will be a good primer and help when you are on the course

I'm not sure what courses you are looking at re:
"The ones I am striking off the list immediately ask for a good knowledge of navigation before I attend, others want me to be a competent sailor and sail trimmer before I attend to command respect from my 'crew'"

But you want to do Day skipper theory and practical, unless you are confident already i would not advise doing the combined course (but i think most do combined these days). Do theory before practical.

I did my courses on the south west coast http://www.brixhamseaschool.com/ (really good chaps) if you want to make a semi-holiday of it. But im sure there are people on this board who know local schools to you
 
WestWittering said:
I can navigate - ie I can get to where I am going. I can sail - they go up and power the boat along.

I struggle with navigation though and want to be able to do the calculations without a problem and without using the GPS. Position fixing & dead reckoning, tidal currents, etc basic rudimentary knowledge, but am I wrong to expect these things to be taught?


Di
Click to expand...

Afew contradictions in your post :)

My first port of call would be the RYA website to check out the syllabus and entry requirements for each of the courses available. Time then for an honest self-evaluation. If you put yourself on a course beyond your stretch capability, you'll be disappointed, not just for you but for the others on the course, too. The instructor has a duty to withhold the certificate if you have not satisfactorily demonstrated ability as required by the syllabus.

I take it you're also a diver, then think about the "progression" analagy.

Practical courses at sea are just that.....they assume a already match of theory knowledge. There isn't time within a practical course to teach the theory. It's more about the application of the theory.

Combined courses suit some, not all. Depends how quickly you can assimulate new knowledge.

There's more to sailing than to "get where I'm going" and "putting sails up to power the boat along".

Why not pop down to one of the schools for a chat with the principal?

Good luck and I hope you find what you're looking for.
 
West Wittering,

I would strongly recommend you at least make sure you're able to do basic chartwork and passage planning before you go in order to get the most out of the course and also to avoid p*ssing off your fellow DS candidates by taking up all the instructor's time teaching you the basics.

You don't need to have done the full theory course beforehand but many schools use this as a benchmark to ensure that you don't have to have that awkward conversation mid-week when the instructor tells you that he will only be awarding you a comp crew certificate due to your lack of ability to navigate. :o

Get hold of a copy of Tom Cunliffe's "Complete Day Skipper" and if you can read it cover to cover and say with a degree of certainty that you understand all of the principles of navigation and passage planning within it you should be fine. Most instructors aren't expecting you to be able to crack out a complex passage plan without a bit of guidance but they like to see you know the basics of what you should be considering. When I did my DS some of my fellow students took up to 2 hours to get a plan right and that was fine because they were applying the right principles just taking a long time over the calculations.

As to schools you could do a lot worse than Universal http://www.universalsailingschool.co.uk/ they are very competitive on price but also understand that repeat custom doesn't happen if you cram students on damp smelly boats with no privacy!
 
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Actually on the subject of books, whilst Tom Cunliffe's book is quite useful (I own a copy myself), I found the best book for theory practice is Alison Noice's Day Skipper Exercises. Its simply practice questions though, rather than teaching material, but if you like to learn by doing exercises over and over again its great, I found it really useful!
 
Agree with many of the other posters, you will get far more out of your DS practical if you have the theory under your belt because there is no time to teach it from scratch on the practical course. What you are doing is putting it into practice so that you have a series of lightbulb moments when it suddenly all makes sense (or maybe that was just me). Word of warning though, shop around if you are going to do the theory as a distance learning course - I paid way too much for mine. I think ideally I would do it as evening classes, if there was a convenient one available.

I did my Comp Crew in the Med which was ideal as part of a family holiday - spouse and eldest child then aged 10 did it with me and younger children came along for the ride - but I would not do a non-tidal DS for obvious reasons.

Like Flawed Logic I did my DS practical at Brixham Sea School and found them excellent.

Good luck whatever you decide.
 
I think maybe it is because I am female, I am harder on myself than I should be.

When I read that I expected to be able to competently navigate, then I take that to mean, sit down, give me a passage plan, taking in deviation, wind & tides over 200 miles and I want it in five minutes! The five minutes, I would struggle with. I don't want to be a 'lets turn on the Garmin' sailor!

Also, I don't want to be a weak link on a course. However, when teaching PADI & BSAC courses, neither did I expect the trainees to know everything before they started. We would make sure they had read the Open Water Diver course book, completed the knowledge reviews inside and away we would go.

And with all due respect - what is sailing if it is not putting the sails up and getting to where we want to go?

I have quite a few publications now - Tom Cunliffe is my new hero & Alison Noyce has been highly recommended and I am about to order her Nav book.
I have RYA2 Powerboat and have quite a few hours driving a 320hp RHIB so am not a complete numpty when it comes to bouys & colregs.

Di
 
WestWittering said:
I think maybe it is because I am female, I am harder on myself than I should be.

When I read that I expected to be able to competently navigate, then I take that to mean, sit down, give me a passage plan, taking in deviation, wind & tides over 200 miles and I want it in five minutes! The five minutes, I would struggle with. I don't want to be a 'lets turn on the Garmin' sailor!

Also, I don't want to be a weak link on a course. However, when teaching PADI & BSAC courses, neither did I expect the trainees to know everything before they started. We would make sure they had read the Open Water Diver course book, completed the knowledge reviews inside and away we would go.

And with all due respect - what is sailing if it is not putting the sails up and getting to where we want to go?

I have quite a few publications now - Tom Cunliffe is my new hero & Alison Noyce has been highly recommended and I am about to order her Nav book.
I have RYA2 Powerboat and have quite a few hours driving a 320hp RHIB so am not a complete numpty when it comes to bouys & colregs.

Di
Click to expand...



Your comparison isn't fair. The day skipper is not the entry level course. By the time you get to day skipper you should be able to hand, reef and stear and have taken the relevant theory courses.
 
WestWittering said:
The ones I am striking off the list immediately ask for a good knowledge of navigation before I attend, others want me to be a competent sailor and sail trimmer before I attend to command respect from my 'crew' WTF?
Click to expand...

You didn't give much detail about your previous sailing experience in your posts other than your PB2.

I wouldn't be too hasty with striking these schools off the list, a common problem with RYA courses (in my experience) are people who overstate their experience. The other students - in your case the competent crew - should be able to learn the basics from you as you 'know the ropes' already and have at least the suggested minimum pre course experience.

If you think that's the case then go for it, if not either get some hours in crewing etc first or do competent crew, a whole week on a sailing boat, assumed knowledge is zero and no pressure....which tends to add enjoyment!
 
Dream or Two in Gosport are a sailing school that was set up primarily for women, although you'll find plenty of male customers too. They, or any school with this emphasis, will make sure you take a full part in everything and don't get marginalised.

Choose a school that mixes Comp Crew and Day Skippers, otherwise you will have a morning of boredom as four or five people all have to take turns at coming into a pontoon. This is especially bad if you know fine well how to come into a pontoon so there's not even a challenge element.

All the Solent schools that I know of are five students to one instructor as their costs are very high. If you go to Trysail in Cornwall it's four to one which makes for a less cramped boat and more instructor attention. It might well be the same with other sailing schools in lower cost areas.

The theory course is a lot more fun that you might think. It changed my life in that for thirty-nine years I thought I couldn't navigate anywhere, and suddenly I had the confidence and skills to navigate everywhere. I found my spatial intelligence over an RYA training chart.
 
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Merry Girl said:
All the Solent schools that I know of are five students to one instructor as their costs are very high. If you go to Trysail in Cornwall it's four to one which makes for a less cramped boat and more instructor attention. It might well be the same with other sailing schools in lower cost areas...
Click to expand...

Canary Sail are normally three to one.
 
Theory first. Until a few years ago, because you could get a job with the qualification the local evening schools did both dazed kipper and coastal theory evening classes. As it was two hrs/week you got loads of time for homework and always advised anyone with reasonable experience to go straight for coastal course and do a bit more homework. Now you need to go commercial, without educational sponsorship from HMG probably need to do both. But most yacht clubs do courses over the winter, good discount for being a member of club as making up spaces with nonmembers paying commercial prices (or bit less but still cheaper than full commercial) bring down price for members. Total course time was about 48hrs so can be done at a local YC as say 8 hrs every Saturday morning for six weeks. I think CA still do them over 3 weekends (Limehouse is a great place to stay).

For the practical, if you are not driving your own boat then even if holding coastal theory it is worth doing the Dazed Kipper first, especially if you get an experienced instructor. Stopped instructing for money 10 yrs ago but basically if I can spend five days on a boat with you and have not had to jump overboard to avoid braining you with the winch handle= comp crew (even if still cannot tie bowline, seasick in F2, blocked heads, twice, and arrived with rigid suitcase). Dazed kipper = tomorrow round about here I am going to hand over to you and want you to get us into a berth/anchor around her. Coastal = where are we? If forecast for wind shift to NW6 where will we go and where can we get another forecast? Offshore (but I was only YM Instructor so based on observation of results of my students who pass/fail at the decision of the external examiner who joined on last day) Where are we now? What is forecast? Crew just got knocked out by boom, where can we go? And if you had to leave cockpit to find answers you were not likely to pass.

Have seen teaching in France USA and Auz and congratulations RYA, we probably have the best system in the world. Go for it!

Hope that helps,

Dratsea
 
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