David Kelly

[ParaHandy]

i wonder how long it will be before peoples experiences of blair's deceitfulness and disregard of process becomes a tide of shite which drowns him ... hopefully, long before we become so inured to it that we succumb to believing it the norm ...

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

Re: iraq support

Interesting. I don't remember the figure of 60% not trusting the government. I read all the UN weapons inspectors reports at the time and it seemed pretty clear that he was hiding something. Does the fact that nothing was found mean that they weren't there in the first place?

I think the bottom line was that the yanks were going to go in anyway and would the UK have let them go alone, being a member of NATO and UN security council member etc? Would the current situation have been any different if the yanks had done it on their own?

 

[jimi]

Hans Blix Report 27/1/03

Worth Reading

Please note the last paragraph

"Mr. President,
We have now an inspection apparatus that permits us to send multiple inspection teams every day all over Iraq, by road or by air. Let me end by simply noting that that capability which has been built-up in a short time and which is now operating, is at the disposal of the Security Council."

 

[mirabriani]

Re: iraq support

If weapons were destroyed, why not provide the evidence?
I know some one gave a reason, but if he wanted to remain in power and stop the invasion.......
There was some talk of weapons going across the border.
America is rattling sabres at some of Iraqs neighbours!
The future might give some answers.

Regards Briani

 

[Gunfleet]

Re: iraq support

[ QUOTE ]
The future might give some answers.

[/ QUOTE ]
or not

 

[mirabriani]

Re: iraq support

Oddly enough on the radio at the moment
a lady just said "We have not found them yet"
I cannot read the dial but it is a BBC channel
discussing the Iraq situation.

Regards Briani

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

Re: Hans Blix Report 27/1/03

Jimi,

Don't understand what your point is.

I would be interested to hear your view of how the current situation would be different if the UK hadn't supported the US in the invasion.

 

[jimi]

Re: Hans Blix Report 27/1/03

You say
"I read all the UN weapons inspectors reports at the time and it seemed pretty clear that he was hiding something."

This report by Hans Blix really says that give us more time and we'll find anything that's there. No need for war. Its actually quite difficult to prove you do'nt have something.


How would the current situation be different if UK had'nt supported US invasion.

Definites
1) A lot more people would still be alive
2) British Middle Eastern Foreign policy may have retained its credibility in foreign eyes
3) Resources could have been devoted to find Bin Ladin
4) World would be safer for UK citizens
5) We'd have saved a lot of tax payers money
6) Credibility of UN eroded as US & UK ignored and twisted UN resultions to suit their purpose
7) Parliament & people were deliberately misled by the executive thus undermining UK democracy
8) No WMD

Maybe's
Democracy in Iraq?? Jury's still out. My guess is that in another couple of year's Iraq will have another Saddam as the county's culture will find it difficult to cope with democracy.

 

[tworeefs]

Re: Hans Blix Report 27/1/03

A couple more definites for you: -
The government would not have needed to introduce undemocratic anti-terrorism legislation granting the power to lockup people without trial.
Britain would have been in a strong position to win the bid for the 2012 Olympics.

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

Re: Hans Blix Report 27/1/03

Thanks Jimi. I'm bemused by the strength of feeling these issues raise from the "antis". It's so difficult to get a rational explanation like that from most people. You raise a number of issues that I would love to discuss at length but this obviously isn't the place.

My own view at the time, having researched some of the background, was that the invasion was OK. Three weeks after Bhagdad was taken I saw an item on the news showing a mass grave which had been discovered containing the bodies of children who had been buried alive. That alone was enough to justify it for me at the time. Even so I keep an open mind on the subject and I'm open to persuasion. Some of the things that are now coming out of the woodwork are a bit worrying.

 

[bob_tyler]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone want to explain to me again that no vote is a wasted vote?

[/ QUOTE ]

A wasted vote or an intentionally spoilt ballot paper is totally ignored so is quite useless and acting like a spoilt child. Voting should be tactical to get rid of this bunch of crooks and liars. Vote for whoever is most likely to beat the Labour candidate in your constituency and you are really making your point.

 

[alant]

So we don't deserve to know what shits they are before we use our little vote?
___________________________________________________

We already suspect that surely, regardless of politico colour.
We'll just carry on doing what Nanny tells us! It must be good for us.

 

[Bergman]

Re: iraq support

If Saddam was hiding WMD he has done an incredibly good job considering 100,000+ people have been looking for 2 years and still can't find any.

NATO membership is irrelevant, Midle East is outside terms of the treaty - (NA -North Atlantic)

What Blairs motives were is anyones guess. Perhaps you (or anyone else) can explain the benefits that have accrued as a consequence of this invasion.

Would the situation be different if UK had not joined?

Well we can only guess:

Not continual terrorist alert
Perhaps no imprionment without trial, charge, evidence etc.
Perhaps oil 10 - 20 dollars/barrel less
Certainly several billion pounds to help fill the "black hole"

Most of all more than 60 British servicemen would be alive , their widows would still be wives and their children would have fathers.

 

[jimi]

Panorama

Interesting. Liar agreed with Bush for regime change and manipulated everyone and everything to suit his purpose .. what a shock! He needs arresting!

SECURITY SERVICE ACT 1989
1989 CHAPTER 5
1.— (1) There shall continue to be a Security Service (in this Act referred to as “the Service”) under the authority of the Secretary of State.

(2) The function of the Service shall be the protection of national security and, in particular, its protection against threats from espionage, terrorism and sabotage, from the activities of agents of foreign powers and from actions intended to overthrow or undermine parliamentary democracy by political, industrial or violent means.


I reckon this empowers MI5 & MI6 to start investigating the Liar

 

[Bergman]

Re: Panorama

Yes you would think so but:

The Security Service is MI5

There was a dictat made by Harold Wilson when he was PM that no MP could be investigated by Security Service without permission of PM. This was at a time when a number of Labour MPs (and many party members) were actively working for the KGB.

However

That rule is still in place.

TB is A MP

Therefore he cannot be investigated by Security Service unless they seek and receive his agreement to do so.

An unlikely event

Neat eh?