Dangerous foiling moth 'pilot' in Portland.

[westernman]

I did make it clear that I started videoing afterwards.
When I put the engines into reverse he was on a constant bearing and closing at high speed. If you have a better definiton of a collision course...? When the boat stopped, he was no longer on a constant bearing.

So did he pass in front or behind you?
At what distance?

 

[Bouba]

I don't care how skilled he is.
I have a friend who told me this guy is a skilled skipper.

Nobody is immune from fouling up.


Thanks. TBH, the sound signals would have been an option had I had time, but the entire episode took not much more time than 5 short blasts. It was faster to reach for the throttles than the horn.

I did make it clear that I started videoing afterwards.
When I put the engines into reverse he was on a constant bearing and closing at high speed. If you have a better definiton of a collision course...? When the boat stopped, he was no longer on a constant bearing.

Are you talking about the skipper of the tanker ? Who in that situation is in the wrong (apart from the race organizers but don’t get me started on that one) ?

 

[Nos4r2]

So did he pass in front or behind you?
At what distance?

In front, mast amost over our foredeck.

Are you talking about the skipper of the tanker ? Who in that situation is in the wrong (apart from the race organizers but don’t get me started on that one

Lets have a think on that. The vessel restricted in its ability to manoevre by its size and draught that takes half a mile to stop, or the utter plank that went under its bow and dismasted himself.

Yacht skipper fined for Cowes Week collision with oil tanker

 

[Petertheking1982]

Some boaters are more cautious than others, but his doesn't make the others dangerous or the cautious wrong.

 

[dunedin]

In front, mast amost over our foredeck.

Lets have a think on that. The vessel restricted in its ability to manoevre by its size and draught that takes half a mile to stop, or the utter plank that went under its bow and dismasted himself.

Yacht skipper fined for Cowes Week collision with oil tanker

So the Moth skipper probably had to suddenly change from passing astern to passing close in front due to your unexpected action.

And as noted by many here, as you were at Portland likely very experienced Moth sailors.
The Solent tanker incident is hardly relevant. Think they weren't looking under the sails. I believe some if her crew were naval officers. There are many skills relevant to leading a crew of a warship in battle, but small sailing boat handling is not one of the relevant skills for modern naval warfare.

 

[Bouba]

In front, mast amost over our foredeck.

Lets have a think on that. The vessel restricted in its ability to manoevre by its size and draught that takes half a mile to stop, or the utter plank that went under its bow and dismasted himself.

Yacht skipper fined for Cowes Week collision with oil tanker

The tanker might be going at a speed for commercial reasons....not a speed fit for going through a yacht race
Don’t get me wrong, having a yacht race alongside huge ships is stupid...

 

[flaming]

The famous orange tanker incident is completely irrelevant. And has been done to death here... Quite apart from anything else, unlike the tanker you were technically the give way vessel.

If you feel aggrieved, report the sail number to the club. Moaning on a forum isn't going to help.

I note that you haven't answered any of the people who have politely asked what about the behaviour in the video is supposed to be a "stunt" or in some way unacceptable?

 

[Supine Being]

Are you talking about the skipper of the tanker ? Who in that situation is in the wrong (apart from the race organizers but don’t get me started on that one) ?

The skipper of the yacht was very much in the wrong and felt the wrath of the law as a result

Yacht skipper fined for Cowes Week collision with oil tanker

And, as he was a navy officer sailing as part of a naval jolly, I heard that we taxpayers got to pay for his defence.

 

[flaming]

The skipper of the yacht was very much in the wrong and felt the wrath of the law as a result

Yacht skipper fined for Cowes Week collision with oil tanker

And, as he was a navy officer sailing as part of a naval jolly, I heard that we taxpayers got to pay for his defence.

He wasn't sailing as part of a Naval Jolly. It was his own boat.

The defense was part funded by the armed forces legal aid fund.

 

[Nos4r2]

I note that you haven't answered any of the people who have politely asked what about the behaviour in the video is supposed to be a "stunt" or in some way unacceptable?

TBH, until the yacht owner popped up and said they were taking pics of their mate doing close passes, I assumed that the close pass to stern was also taken badly as there was a loud shout from the yacht that I could hear over a pair of sodding gert diesels from that distance.
The 'stand on' vessel really shouldn't be putting the 'give way' vessel into a position where an attempt to give way is dangerous, or acting like the 'give way' vessel either.
Either way, the whole point of 'moaning on a forum' was to make people aware of it. I for example will be staying well away from the moths in Portland now, if for no other reason than the guy scared one of my crew.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Check out here what is involved to tack a sailing vessel:-

Sure - I have Darcy Lever's "Young Seaman's Sheet Anchor" on my bookshelf. Also, when steam started to compete seriously with sail, crews were cut to the bone making taking or wearing even slower.

 

[Pete7]

That’s why the law states give way to sail...the law is based on the assumption that sailors don’t know what they are doing

It would appear that there are no laws for wind assisted vessels, therefore lawless. https://www.portland-port.co.uk/pub...Current in force/14-2017 Speed of Vessels.pdf

Nos, you could ask the harbour authority if a risk assessment has been carried out for vessels travelling at excessive speeds and if they are equipped with recommended safety equipment, VHF, chart, fire extinguisher, anchor and chain suitable for anchoring in 16m of water Perhaps recommend a speed limit, say 6 knots for vessels under 20m. There used to be one but seems to have been moved to just the shore areas.

 

[sigma38dave]

Some boaters are more cautious than others, but his doesn't make the others dangerous or the cautious wrong.

Yes, quite.

In my distant past motorcycle racing days anyone that managed to get in front of you was a ‘nutter’ on a ‘death wish’ rather than better/more experienced.

 

[westernman]

It would appear that there are no laws for wind assisted vessels, therefore lawless. https://www.portland-port.co.uk/pub...Current in force/14-2017 Speed of Vessels.pdf

Of more concern is that there is nothing which applies to jet-skis.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Not at all. Deliberately coming that close to another vessel at that kind of speed is discourteous and dangerous.

We’ll you’re obviously entitled to your opinion but I haven’t seen anyone agreeing with you yet.

I’m reminded of accounts of professional racing drivers on the Nuremberg Ring who drive past people in slower cars. They know what they’re doing and what looks close to others isn’t close at all.

I’m also reminded again of my crew who thought that five metres off a Port Hand mark was far too close. It’s all a matter of perception.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

We’ll you’re obviously entitled to your opinion but I haven’t seen anyone agreeing with you yet.

I’m reminded of accounts of professional racing drivers on the Nuremberg Ring who drive past people in slower cars. They know what they’re doing and what looks close to others isn’t close at all.

I’m also reminded again of my crew who thought that five metres off a Port Hand mark was far too close. It’s all a matter of perception.

I thought of you are we rounded West Ryde Middle this evening. 30cm, roughly. Didn’t do us any good, the wind then died completely, and we had to retire.

 

[ylop]

Hi everyone, we were the yacht and the moth sailor was our mate so he was giving us a flyby.

So to anyone questioning what the stunt was - you have it from the horse's mouth - it was indeed a stunt. Now that might have been a less alarming thing that the OP thought he observed, but the rest of you assumed that sailing a moth that close and fast to a stranger's boat was OK.

...so there was no risk he was going to alarm anyone. (Other than onlookers).

I don't have a solution for how you avoid alarming onlookers, but in my opinion, if his manner of sailing makes other people alarmed it's probably not seaman-like behaviour. Of course many people will be fine with that - they go to sea for adrenaline not a warm glow from being seamanlike. I think the potential for human error or gear failure means that the assumption of "no risk" is a bold one.

I wonder if the OP has changed their mind yet? No criticism, as we all have different perspectives on things.

We might not agree with the OP but he's highlighted some useful points to consider:
- Can you assume that because someone had the skills to "fly" a moth that they have seen you?
- Can you assume that someone flying a moth actually doesn't want a slow boat to take avoiding action and will just nip out your way?
- Who determines what a safe passing distance is?
- If you are going for adrenaline-filled action shots very close to a friends boat how will others perceive you? and might you cause alarm to others? or reputational damage to your "class" of water user?
- Are the assumptions about moth sailors being super-skilled true of other foiling craft? It seems that the electric foiling surf boards, kite/wing stuff etc are making much more penetration than moth's ever managed. My guess is they must need less skill to be doing that? Does the passing boater need to identify the class of vessel to know if the vessel is skippered by an amazing dinghy sailer or a banker with a bonus who's never read the colregs?

You’re still dismissing the skill of the moth pilot. He will be amongst the most able dinghy sailors in the country.

It is an interesting argument. We wouldn't expect a race car driver / motorcyclist to drive the way he does on the track and wouldn't hesitate to criticise them for high speed perfectly controlled, but alarming to a bystander, passes.

 

[westernman]

Windsurfer has right of way over an airplane.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

The other point is that Portland is a bit like the Nurburgring. You’ve got to expect these things there.

 

[wizard]

Being based in Portland I can assure you that the racing fleets and everybody else works with each other. The harbour master has rules as to how all vessels behave here and keeps a very close eye on things . There was if I recall a recent notice to mariners regarding foiling in the harbour warning foilers to pay strict attention to other vessels.

I suggest that your being unfamiliar with the racing and practicing within the harbour is at the basis of your concern. I have been based here for 6 years and there has yet to be an incident report in the harbourmasters regular reports.