Dangerous Boat Yards

If you don't like the boatyard your in then move somewhere else, which is to your liking, (posh marina) with all the h+s you require, at a price, and not spoil it for the rest of the yard, if they were in the same mind as you are, they would of voiced their opinion by now, but maybe they like the yard as it is, old and unrefined, with character. some people still prefer the rustic boatyard...
 
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....As I said earlier, it's the way of people these days it seems, I'd string them all up from the nearest yardarm and tell them to claim against that! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Sounds potentially hazardous to me! I'd hope you would complete a thorough risk assessment before stringing them up!

I have to say that I'm a bit surprised at how evenly split opinion on this issue has been. Amongst those who engage in the inherently risky pastime of "going to sea in ships" I'd have expected almost unanimous agreement with Chrusty1! Also, (I have to say) a little disappointed and a trifle bemused that I appear to be in a camp populated by much older folk!

Maybe I'm stuck in a time warp or was born 30 years too late or something but I really do prefer to take my own decisions and live (or die!) by the consequences - it's one of the things that attracted me to boating in the first place!

I was greatly depressed by the bit in the papers the other day about some kid whose parents had sued the parents of another kid because they had hired a bouncy castle for his birthday and the first kid broke his neck on it. As I looked up from the paper and watched next door's kids and my kids happily bouncing on their trampoline, I wondered whether I should have packed them off home pronto in case I got sued...

...sad times.
 
I am still gob smacked at this debate, I will be copying the responses as I am sure they will be useful and amusing in a health and safety presentation.

I bet any of the old uns here would not shrug their shoulders as they put their foot through that rotten plank, or that door fell on them when they opened it and then thank the owner and say thats the romance of sailing.

Getting washed overboard, sinking, clapped in irons, drifting in a shipping lane, fighting a storm are the danger sailors romanticaly sign up openly for, not some idiot scrimping on his maintenance bill.

Apart from the fine lady who confessed to falling off her precarious platform, lets have some real confessions of where people have fallen foul of someone elses negligence and/or incompetence and thanked them for it. I would lay money on it that those examples are not there.

Conrad
 
None from me anyway. I've fallen off things, stubbed my toe on things tripped over things, walked into things etc etc.

Each and every time I've thought "that was silly".

Haven't thanked anyone...

...haven't sued anyone.

I supposed I might get a bit miffed if I'd trod on a landmine that the yard owner had buried next to my boat, though!
 
So what would us old uns do if we put our foot through a rotten plank?
I know that I'd call myself a fool for not spotting a rotten plank.

I would not think "who can I blame for that and can I get some compensation please"
 
Danger is relative,wrap everyone up in cottonwool and watch them lose their own sense of responsibility.
If you live with danger you respect it or pay the price.
If H&S followed me around at work I'd get nothing done, my boss would think I was working to rule. But I know my limits and work within them. When contractors come in they have to do a risk assessment, what a load of BS, I have to work with them and all they care about is getting the job done as quick as poss, risk ass might as well be written on bog paper.
When I go to 'dodgy' boatyard, I could soak up the atmospere all day, watching where I put my feet is part of it.
 
"Sounds potentially hazardous to me! I'd hope you would complete a thorough risk assessment before stringing them up!"

I most certainly would!.....I wouldn't want the rope to snap prematurely, and for them to fall on some innocent soul below. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif





I might get sued! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
"Apart from the fine lady who confessed to falling off her precarious platform, lets have some real confessions of where people have fallen foul of someone elses negligence and/or incompetence and thanked them for it. I would lay money on it that those examples are not there"


You know what leaves me feeling a little bemused, it's this idea that "H&E professionals" have that people are not capable of looking after themselves. Do you think that after 76 years on this planet, and a bit more than 60 of those years sailing in boats and ships of all sorts that I need someone to tell me how I should be doing things?

My guess is that yes you probably would do, well that wouldn't be surprising to me because I think you probably earn your living out of H&E, so you have vested interest in telling other people that they need to do a "risk assesment" before getting out of bed in the morning /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

See Conrad, most people have a built in H&E mechanism, it's called common sense and experience, and they don't need to be led by the nose in everything they do in order to be safe.

I'm afraid no matter how much you and others may wish otherwise, you can't legislate for idiots......anyway, why would you want to? Darwinism and all that you know! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I wonder if the H & S brigade realise that stringent rules & reg pushes prices up & up !
In my industry the H & S are very much refered to as "the jobs for the boys team"

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I must say I agree with Chrusty. I hat being told what it is 'safe' for me to do - or not as the case may be. I can work that out for myself on the whole.

One point of view on the debate about this boat yard could be: its cheap, and thats the way we want to keep it. Broken glass lying around? clear it up. 20 foot drop to the pontoons? - so what, its no different to any wharf or jetty. Heavy equipment lying around - Just how DID they manage break an arm on it anyway - and who didnt put it away in the first place? Electrics: havent you got a screwdriver? Loose doors - again wheres the toolkit?

In other words, if somethings broke - fix it! If you want a 'posh' yard with everything sanitised and maintained by yard staff to a high standard, then you must pay 'posh' prices, and you will be spoiled for choice. If on the other hand you want cheap facilities, then you pay with your time to make it work and keep it tidy and safe. Same as many smaller DIY yacht clubs where memebrs do all the work themselves .
 
Crikey....what have I started....it seems its acceptable to allow shoddy work practices....holes in the yard...dodgy ropes...falling down sheds and doors...no lights....20ft ladder drops to pontoons....and total apathy...and we are supposed to every incident on the chin because the yard is cheap....I DON'T THINK SO....

Hopefully before someone is injured beyond repair something will be done....the fees go up every year....but nothing is ever done....the yard management know what the problems are but just take the money without putting anything back in to boating...its a greedy society

I might get the chop..for belling the cat....so be it....you can have my space...and risk your neck or wallow in the success of my departure
 
okay simple question here

I pay £370 /m for a posh marina berth how much does your shabby yard charge ?
 
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I wonder if the H & S brigade realise that stringent rules & reg pushes prices up & up !

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It's not JUSt that. It has far more insidious consequences, in my view. It also removes the freedome to choose for EVERYONE. Clearly there are those on here who still want to make their own choices and are prepared to accept the risks (and benefits) that go with that. Unfortunately, it seems that whether we like it or not, we shouldn't be allowed to have that choice.
 
I love dangerous boat yards. Old machinery lying around, skips to browse through, antiquated tractor with exposed moving parts still in use for launching, children playing in the mud under the drying piles, abandoned boats propped up on dubious bits of wood.
Don't tell anyone - treasure it.

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You forgot to mention that cocktail of diesel, red lead, white lead and antifoulf that pervades the air.....and worth any risk just to enjoy.....Now where can I get my next fix

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Health and safety is just getting stupid these days. Its not getting to the point where in my line of work (civil engineering company) we cant actually do our jobs.

If a boatyard is considered by someone to be a danger, then dont use it! Dont whinge and ruin it for everyone else who uses it.

At the end of the day, the end user is the one that prevents accidents happening because its their responisbility to look out for themselves and avoid hazards you consider to be dangerous. Someone else might consider there to be an acceptable risk and so continue as normal. No amount of documentation or law can make things safe, its upto the individual to determine whether or not there is an acceptable risk to themselves.
 
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"H&E professionals"

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"
My guess is that yes you probably would do, well that wouldn't be surprising to me because I think you probably earn your living out of H&E, so you have vested interest in telling other people that they need to do a "risk assesment" before getting out of bed in the morning /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Chrusty

You're not wrong in a lot of what you say and I think there is probably some common ground to be had in this debate.

I would agree the sterile environments of expensive modern establishments are not everyones cup of tea and those ageing relics of machinery we see laying around do give a place a bit of character, which incidentally I like.

I agree we should all look where we are going and supervise ourselves and our children in what is a dangerous environment whether pristine or 'characterful', yes if we trip over something because we haven't been looking take it on the chin and move on.

So far two bits of common ground.

The issue is when accidents are caused outside of your control, the electric shock because the owner hasn't had the electrics tested since the 60s, the stair tread that gives away because the owner didn't get round to it, the swinging crane hook that puts a hole in the side of your boat because the owner was in a rush to watch the footy, these are the issues which shouldn't happen.

The quiet word is a debate, yes if you feel comfortable, it may well just be an oversight or something the owner wasn't aware of, a decent owner will thank you for it. But and a big but, not everyone is that approachable and open to feedback or criticism and that is the point I was making, if they are unapproachable use the people that are paid by our taxes to do their job and under no circumstance should you be made to feel guilty for doing so.

The point about improvements in safety being expensive is not always valid, yes it will cost to upgrade your electrics and put proper hinges on doors and fix that broken step. Good housekeeping only costs time, this means broken bits of machinery to one side in the broken bits of machinery corner, loose steps fixed, crane hooks tied down and so on.

As for go somewhere else, my yard, which is a very good characterful yard incidentally, is the only one in my neck of the woods, I am sure this is the case for others in that the yard they are at is the most convenient hence why they go there.

Risk assessments, we all do them, even before getting out of bed, for instance if I wake the misses early will it be a bad day for me, do I switch the light on in case the kids have left toys on the stairs or do I risk waking the baby, if I have ten more minutes sleep will I be late for work, the fear of risk assessments is out of proportion and most RAs should be no more complex than my examples and don't necessarily need to be written.

As for my job, heavy electrical engineering, firstly on the tools then running the show, I can proudly say that no one has been killed or seriously injured on jobs under my control and I can assure you that I don't go over the top.

Anyway, good debate, take care and above all be safe.

Conrad
 
Sure

My previous mooring meant I had to navigate an unlit towpath and a large drop when the tide was out. There was old machinery strewn about. I helped out when boats and masts, keels were lifted in/out despite not being trained.

The price was a fraction of that a marina charged.

I did not call in H&S, I ensured that I took a torch with me, and used my eyes. (Something I also do on board in the dark !)

To some it was a H&S nightmare, to me it was a lot safer than when I was battling a storm out to sea.

Sadly, there are some yuppie flats where my boat was stored, and I now pay several times what I used to.

I confess to being Gobsmacked at the attitude of some who risk life and limb at sea (which is not a sterile environment) but are put off if the boat yard is not sterile.
 
Hi Conrad, I am not going to answer you in detail, because as you say there is common ground, we may not see eye to eye on it all, but that doesn't really matter. It is as you say, a very good debate, made even better by the fact that the people engaging in it have done so in good humour and even a bit of levity. I have actually taken heart from what has been said, although the original poster Stephen doesn't seemed to have done so?

I will say this, if anybody is lucky enough to find a nice old fashioned yard, the type that many have described here, I think you should treasure it, and maybe even work with the owner/s to keep it as safe and tidy as possible, but fight tooth and claw to stop it being "modernised"......or horror of horrors, turned into another bloody marina!
 
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See Conrad, most people have a built in H&E mechanism

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Best line on this thread.
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Apart from the fine lady who confessed to falling off her precarious platform

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I really must change my user name.
 
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