Danforth Anchor - RIP

Boathook

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After anchoring and deciding that the anchorage was uncomfortable, the electric windlass with engine assistance was set to work and the Danforth came up in this state. The replacement is at present a 10Kg Lewmar Delta which is over 2Kg lighter than the Danforth, but it was the biggest available 'off the shelf' at the chandlery at time. The other option was the 28lb CQR kedge anchor in the locker …..
The Delta seems to work as well as the Danforth and seems to set in its own 'length' but I'm now looking at the various types of anchor trying to work out what is best and dragging up various threads on YBW, but I do loose the will to live at times with these as they do seem to run into 10's of pages ……………

I don't want to start another anchor thread but the Delta is a much newer design than the Danforth imho.
 

Orion Jim

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A genuine Danforth?
The Delta and the Danforth are very different so it's like comparing apples and oranges. I have found the genuine Spade and Mantus anchors to perform extremely well. The Danforth frequently had stones and clams caught in it which is the reason I stopped using it forty years ago. It does have its admirers though.
 

sarabande

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I'd start by identifying the type of sea bed that is your main anchoring profile. If sand or squishy mud, then Danforth or Fortress,: if more solid, then clever modern plough types like Spade, Rocna, I use a Knox preferentially for all-round anchoring, but also have Fortresses, and A Gert Big Delta as the wicket keeper.

The one prob with Danforths is that they are so easy to make up out of bits of steel, that you are might well have a copy with poor performance characteristics. The easiest Danforth type to verify as genuine, is a Fortress :)
 

Neeves

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You illustrate a common issue. it looks like a Danforth, you call it a Danforth and I suspect I and many other would also, lazily, call it a Danforth - but I doubt yours is a genuine Danforth. Lots of people damn CQR's - it is also commonly copied. Some of the criticism of CQR is of a copy - and the copies often bear little resemblance to the original.

If you check anchors made in China 'Alibaba' or 'Made in China' you will find copies of Rocna (and I think they have had mention here, copies I mean). I doubt they have bothered using a high tensile steel for the shank - looks are deceptive.

I am as guilty as the next man - we have a danforth copy as a dinghy anchor.

A mentioned, CQR, Danforth (and Delta and Bruce) are all copied. Many other anchors are also copied - some with modification - don't expect the copies to be necessarily as good as the original. AND jut because an anchor look a bit like a Rocna - does not mean it will perform like a Rocna - if you want certainty - buy one that has been independently tested (and preferably tested by Classification Societies or equivalent - Rocna, Supreme, Spade, Ultra, Fortress, Danforth, Excel, SARCA

Jonathan

Edit:

Sorry if I missed one that has been CS, or equivalent, tested and approved, at some time (as a SHHP anchor)
 
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sailaboutvic

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If you look at most new boats they come with a delta , personally I think it's not a bad anchor , when we brought our new Dufour in 2009 it also came with a delta , we don't have the advantages of picking our anchoring spot ,
we don't know what the bottom going to be chart may say sand but you arrive and find its over grow with weed.
In our early days on the east coast you can almost say it's going to be mud .
We found the delta worked well most of the time , I disagree that it will set in its own length , there been many and many of time we ended a boat length away from where we dropped it , but all in all it's a good anchor . We ended up selling it and buying a ? ( don't want to run into an ? Is better then a ? thread) for good reason , one we wanted a heave anchor because we live n the hook 9 months a year , another reason it did drag a few times but there where in winds that most wouldn't be anchored in any way .
Plus we at times have no option but to anchor in packed anchorages and spots are limit so after taken time to pick a spot where you not going to end up close to another boat , we need a anchor that would set very quickly .
Depending what boat you have and the type of anchoring you do , mostly the Dalta is a good choice.
Agree the anchor in your photo doesn't look like a gen danforth .
 
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LittleSister

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If you check anchors made in China 'Alibaba' or 'Made in China' you will find copies of Rocna . . . I doubt they have bothered using a high tensile steel for the shank - looks are deceptive.

. . . AND jut because an anchor look a bit like a Rocna - does not mean it will perform like a Rocna -

. . . even if it was sold by Rocna! :rolleyes:
 

ashtead

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If you look at most new boats they come with a delta , personally I think it's not a bad anchor , when we brought our new Dufour in 2009 it also came with a delta , we don't have the advantages of picking our anchoring spot ,
we don't know what the bottom going to be chart may say sand but you arrive and find its over grow with weed.
In our early days on the east coast you can almost say it's going to be mud .
We found the delta worked well most of the time , I disagree that it will set in its own length , there been many and many of time we ended a boat length away from where we dropped it , but all in all it's a good anchor . We ended up selling it and buying a ? ( don't want to run into an ? Is better then a ? thread) for good reason , one we wanted a heave anchor because we live n the hook 9 months a year , another reason it did drag a few times but there where in winds that most wouldn't be anchored in any way .
Plus we at times have no option but to anchor in packed anchorages and spots are limit so after taken time to pick a spot where you not going to end up close to another boat , we need a anchor that would set very quickly .
Depending what boat you have and the type of anchoring you do , mostly the Dalta is a good choice.
Agree the anchor in your photo doesn't look like a gen danforth .
If not a Delta which one is a ?
 

noelex

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We found the delta worked well most of the time , I disagree that it will set in its own length , there been many and many of time we ended a boat length away from where we dropped it , but all in all it's a good anchor . We ended up selling it and buying a ? ( don't want to run into an ? Is better then a ? thread) for good reason , one we wanted a heave anchor because we live n the hook 9 months a year , another reason it did drag a few times but there where in winds that most wouldn't be anchored in any way .
Plus we at times have no option but to anchor in packed anchorages and spots are limit so after taken time to pick a spot where you not going to end up close to another boat , we need a anchor that would set very quickly .

This has been my observation as well. All the convex plough anchors I have seen take a long distance to set even if the substrate is not very soft. It seems to be a characteristic of the geometry.

This Kobra is an example of a very long setting distance of a boat length or more as experienced by Sailaboutvic with his Delta. Often they will be a bit quicker than this, but it something the OP should alow for. The Danforth anchor (or copy) does not set very rapidly but usually quicker than Delta.


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Boathook

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Thanks for the comments. It does look different from those on the Danforth website now that I have looked. I just need to carry on reading and looking and see what will fit but the areas that I anchor in seem to be mud, sand and gravel sometimes with a layer of weed.
 

sailaboutvic

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If not a Delta which one is a ?

I think most here know what I have been using for the last six years, it's a 25kg HO NO nearly started a my anchor is better then your wars, :)
Let just say we very happy with what we have as I writing this we sitting in a Meltemi with winds gusting over 35 kts and as been since we arrived yesterday late afternoon we needed a quick set as the whole anchorages was packed with boats taken shelter , we drop at the same time I press the anchor alarm , we stopped at 40 mts from where we dropped , or so the alarm said , we dropped 35 mts , concerning the second the boat came to a stop to drop the anchor the gust pushed the boat bow down wind .at speed , I rackon the anchor must have bit straight away ,
What we tend to do in those conditions is to motor forward a bit although all we doing in reality is keeping the boat at a stand still or moving very slowly back while dropping so the anchor as time to set rather then bouncing on the sea bed .
It works for us before someone says other wise ,
Any way maybe with a bit of luck on our side we ended up just about right , I say this because there wasn't any of that , YOUR TOO CLOSE stuff ,
 
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Neeves

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It worth considering that the CQR and Danforth were introduced in the 30's, Bruce in the 70', Delta (and I think Bugel) in the 80's, Fortress late 80's and Spade 90's (and the Danforth, Fortress, Spade and Bugel have never been mainstream primary, or bower, anchors in the UK). Until the introduction of Rocna (and then a string of alternative designs, see my list above) from around 2006 the leisure boating community survived, and there are still people who are happy to use the stalwarts, CQR, Bruce and Delta. The longevity of thee older models underlines that they do work. The modern design we now enjoy are more forgiving, more reliable and becoming increasingly common place but have only been around for just over a decade. For decades, at least 3-4, members here relied on the old gen models (without GPS enabled anchor watch) and are still here, some still using those same old stalwarts.

I confess to be a convert to the new designs. But I do not knock those that are happy continuing with the anchor they have learnt to use with confidence.

Jonathan
 

sailaboutvic

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It worth considering that the CQR and Danforth were introduced in the 30's, Bruce in the 70', Delta (and I think Bugel) in the 80's, Fortress late 80's and Spade 90's (and the Danforth, Fortress, Spade and Bugel have never been mainstream primary, or bower, anchors in the UK). Until the introduction of Rocna (and then a string of alternative designs, see my list above) from around 2006 the leisure boating community survived, and there are still people who are happy to use the stalwarts, CQR, Bruce and Delta. The longevity of thee older models underlines that they do work. The modern design we now enjoy are more forgiving, more reliable and becoming increasingly common place but have only been around for just over a decade. For decades, at least 3-4, members here relied on the old gen models (without GPS enabled anchor watch) and are still here, some still using those same old stalwarts.

I confess to be a convert to the new designs. But I do not knock those that are happy continuing with the anchor they have learnt to use with confidence.

Jonathan

Jonathan your right in what you say and tho here who use old Gen anchors are still around to tell the tail , but the question as to be ask in what conditions are they using these anchors and now many sleep without worrying .
I sure they be the first to say they do , but do they ?
We can only all speak with our only experience and only say when we see a yacht drag these days , unless it the case where they haven't anchored right in the first place it normally once picked up is an old type anchor .
My gen CQR when as a door stopper in a bar many years ago when I first when off cruiseing.
on the east coast of England , it never failed once . Good old Suffolk/Essex mud . :) it's the best .
I think like a lot of things it's depend on cash , I sure if cash wasn't a problem all them who swear by they good faithful old gen anchor would be out there like a shot buying some thing more reliable.
Also once anchorages where empty and if you dragged 40 or 50 mts before you come to a stop , as long as you don't go aground what the hell , we find now that at times we may only have a boat length of not less from the guy who anchored in front .
 
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noelex

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Thanks for the comments. It does look different from those on the Danforth website now that I have looked. I just need to carry on reading and looking and see what will fit but the areas that I anchor in seem to be mud, sand and gravel sometimes with a layer of weed.

Genuine Danforth anchors have the name on the shank, as in the photo below. The non genuine models are often very crudely made, but the genuine thing does not look that much better to my eyes.

This type of design has tenacious grip in soft substrates, but you need to to be very cautious if there is a risk of a significant change in the direction of pull. The genuine Danforth model does not seem to be much better than the copies, providing the copy has reasonable geometry. If there is any difference, the genuine thing seems to handle harder and weedier substrates slightly better than the copies, but it appears to be a very slight difference. I suspect the improvement is probably because of the slightly sharper and thinner flukes and better tapered shank of the genuine model. However, this still a design much better reserved for very soft substrates and even then it should be used with some caution.

The Delta has its own limitations but is a more versatile anchor, able to cope with a much wider range of substrates adequately and respond predictably to a change in the direction of pull.


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Neeves

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I never see genuine Danforth except in American or Japanese chandlers and on the bow roller of American yachts - so I cannot comment on how they perform. I would be surprised if anyone saw one in use in Europe and was able to actually comment on perfomance.

Even very small differences in construction and geometry will have an impact totally out of proportion to the difference in performance and predicting how an anchor will work - just by looking at it - is imply not possible. Someone who says that 2 different models look similar and thus therefore work the same - is simply showing their ignorance - and should be ignored. Just because an anchor looks like a Rocna does not mean it will perform like a Rocna. Just because an anchor looks like a Spade does not mean it will work like a Spade. A comparison of Ultra v Spade in the Fortress/Chesapeake test underlines this - and this is just one example. Another example is the factorial difference in performance that Fortress has simply by altering the fluke/shank angle.

Vic - you do have a point but JD swears by his CQR and Norman swears by his Bruce. Novak used a CQR until recently, and many of his instructional video feature his CQR. Sunstone used a CQR and sailed round the world a couple of years ago, exploring the Aleutians (for which they were awarded some medal or other), Hawk/Strazinger used 2 x Bruce (having tried and rejected a new gen). Morgan's Cloud recommend against some new gen (but use a Spade introduced in the early 1990's). There are too many accomplished yachtsmen using old gen anchors in harsh places most people here will never, ever, visit to dismiss old gen anchors out of hand.

There is also the other fact you make that a CQR is superb in some environments and less so in others. This again was underlined in the Fortress tests where most anchors were a joke in thin mud. The idea that a single anchor is perfect in every seabed is a dangerous assumption - but one anchor makers are not keen to define. Noelex makes the point that Fortress might not be good in a change of tension direction (I'm not convinced - a well set Fortress will not move) but he, conveniently, omits to underline that a Rocna will simply not develop holding in thin mud and may clog in weed (the reason Morgan's Cloud reject Rocna (and I assume similar designs)- horses for courses. There i no one perfect anchor.

I agree - price is an issue - a Delta costs so much less than most new gen anchors (and they might be made in factories next door to each other) but the price is what the market will accept - the numbers who buy a Rocna, Supreme or Excel attest to the fact many buy on perceived performance and stomach the price.

On Danforth - As I mention I don't see any, outside America on bow rollers - but I do see Britanies (is that the right spelling?) in Europe (and oddly) a few in Australia. Similarly I do see Fortress on bow rollers, but not outside America. I do see a lot of Spades in France and in the French colonial outposts. I similarly see lots of Kobras, despite the sceptics (who have never tried one) again on French yachts. I only see Northills in America or on the American Pacific Islands. Part of this pattern is distribution (West Marine stock genuine Danforths but not Spade nor Kobra) but I do wonder about Jingoism as I cannot believe the seabeds in which French yachts anchor are any different to those that UK yacht might use.

Because there is no one perfect anchor, the seabed we each use are different, the size of our pockets are different and the way we use our anchors are different there is no one size suits all - which is one reason anchos are so contentious. But hopefully people will, eventually, accept the simple idea that there is no one perfect anchor (which is one reason we see so many different anchors on bow rollers) - and then plan accordingly.

Jonathan
 

sailaboutvic

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To be honest you mention three guys out of a site with hundred if not thousands , I lay money the percentages of people still using old style anchors is very very small .
Mostly used by people who anchor in shelter rivers which are mostly mud , weekend sailor , or people who just can't afford to replace them.these are usually old unmantain boats ( I used the word MOSTLY) before I get shot by some.
On the cruiseing circle you see very little liveaboard Marina live Ragusa and Licata in Sicily will have around 150/200' cruiseing yacht each winter from all around the world , Alimeramer , cartagena in Spain,.Lagos in Portugal. Lefkas, Corfu in Greece . Marmaris, finike , fethrye in Turkey where has it happen Norman has his boat , Crete which again has a big cruising community
The amount of danfoth,CQR,Bruce are zero compaired with different new gen anchors,
where you will see old style anchors is in yards with boats that's been there for many years never to be launched again , on the odd run down boat left on some small fishing harbour that just waiting to sunk, but most of all you will see them corners of boat yards rusting away, bars doors and in Marinas to deco the grounds.
Now are we saying thousands and thousands of well traveled and experienced sailor all wrong and a few YBW guys have got it right .
NOW after saying all that offcause the CQR and the Bruce's of this world worked in their hey day and still do but there a lot better anchors around . Cars with starting handles also worked well and still do but how many do you see now technology more on and so as anchors .
I Can't disagree with the like of JD and Norman they have a anchor that works for them so why spend money on another one .
But for most we looking for a anchor that will not only set better and quicker has better holding power but has a better chances in setting in different terrain then just mud and sand.
These anchor thread can and will run for years and there alway be one or two that will still be defending his old time anchor .
If and when the time comes that JD and Norman replaces their anchor they too will be sitting back saying , why the F@@@ didn't I do that years ago .
Taken this one stage further , thank god there are some good anchors about , what we see with some people anchoring skills if it wasn't for NG anchors there be boats on the shores and rock every day of the weeks
 
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charles_reed

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After anchoring and deciding that the anchorage was uncomfortable, the electric windlass with engine assistance was set to work and the Danforth came up in this state. The replacement is at present a 10Kg Lewmar Delta which is over 2Kg lighter than the Danforth, but it was the biggest available 'off the shelf' at the chandlery at time. The other option was the 28lb CQR kedge anchor in the locker …..
The Delta seems to work as well as the Danforth and seems to set in its own 'length' but I'm now looking at the various types of anchor trying to work out what is best and dragging up various threads on YBW, but I do loose the will to live at times with these as they do seem to run into 10's of pages ……………

I don't want to start another anchor thread but the Delta is a much newer design than the Danforth imho.

Not a Danforth - but a cheap copy.
Both the original and the SWMF substitute have a forged shank of far more substantial cross-section.
Whilst I use a Fortress for its lightweight handling, the original Studland is an excellent anchor, but weak on re-setting.
The main benefit of the Delta is that it's cheap, resets, and stows easily. That's why it's so ubiquitous on new production boats.

Unfortunately not a patch on one of the new age anchors (Rocna, Mantus, Spade). I have used most of them on a regular basis.
 

NormanS

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Eh, Jonathan, my present boat came with a genuine 20kg Danforth, as a second anchor. For ease of handling, I replaced it with a Fortress FX23, which has very similar dimensions, and presumably similar holding capability. At present the Danforth is languishing beside my cradle in the boatyard, and longing to be taken to sea again. (Free to a good home). :D

Vic, I suspect that in general the holding in parts of the Med, are possibly not as good as most of the holding around the West Coast of Scotland, although my experience of sailing in the Med is very limited. I do remember anchoring in an open bay in Majorca in a friend's boat. The anchor was probably a CQR. Another boat came in later, and proceeded to put out three anchors. I just smiled and shook my head. Very early in the morning, the boat with the three anchors was still there, while we were dragging out of the bay. He had obviously expected the strong katabatic wind, and we hadn't. Oh well, you learn something every day. Mainly that dragging in a warm dry Mediterranean, isn't a patch on dragging in a screaming gale in freezing cold rain on the West Coast. :rolleyes:
 

Neeves

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Norman - you prove, as others have done before you - I'm too dogmatic - the fact I have not seen genuine Danforth outside America and Japan - does not mean they are not around :)

It is a generous offer but I'm that little bit too far away ('The Tyranny of Distance', with apologies to Blainey) and I am rather keen on alloy anchors.

I do think an 'unweighted' fluke anchor is a valuable addition to the armoury and if I were that little bit closer, owner of a heavier displacement vessel, maybe younger and had a a decent supply of real whisky (are young and an appreciation of decent whisky mutually exclusive? :) ) - I'd be beating a path to your door.

Jonathan
 

noelex

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Not a Danforth - but a cheap copy.
Both the original and the SWMF substitute have a forged shank of far more substantial cross-section.
Whilst I use a Fortress for its lightweight handling, the original Studland is an excellent anchor, but weak on re-setting.
The main benefit of the Delta is that it's cheap, resets, and stows easily. That's why it's so ubiquitous on new production boats.

Unfortunately not a patch on one of the new age anchors (Rocna, Mantus, Spade). I have used most of them on a regular basis.
Genuine Danforth anchors come in two models: the “Standard” and the “Hi-tensile’

The Hi-tensile model has a forged shank of hi tensile steel although it is only about 500 Mpa from memory.

The “Standard” does not have a forged shank (as far as I am aware) and they make no claims about the steel used. I think is probably mild steel.

I suspect the Hi-tensile model is no stronger than the “standard” model. Rather than strengthening the anchor, Danforth have produced a thinner and lighter shank that should improve the performance. I think this is sensible decision, performance is more important in my view, although Danforth design anchors seem to be not very fussy about design details as long as the fluke angle is reasonable.

Hope this helps anyone looking to buy a new or second hand genuine Danforth.
 
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