Danbuoy & horseshoe setup

[Jokani]

I am part way through installing a danbuoy, that came without any instructions whatsoever.

There three ropes:

1 - Activates light
2 - Allows flag to unfurl
3 - Yellow rope?

1 & 2 - I'm unsure what these are supposed to tie to, if anything?

Should the yellow rope be left free for a MOB to hang on/attach to, or would it be best to attach this to the horseshoe and in the event of a MOB throw them both together. I'm tempted to leave them unattached but would appreciate advice form those more experienced.

Any advice gratefully received.

 

[pcatterall]

2, I guess should be attached to the metal fitting so it will pull off the clip and allow the flag to unfurl.
1, At the least the cord to the light should be fastened lower down the stick so that the casualty can activate the light, possibly the crew who throws the dan buoy in could activate the light especially if it is night time.
3, personally I am not sure about the line, certainly there shoild be some floating line attached to the buoy so it can be grabbed and possible the casualty can secure this to him.

You will probably prefer to use the buoy as an aid to finding the casualty then through him the lifebuoy as extra buoyancy

 

[prv]

1 and 2 should be tied to the boat so that the light and flag activate automatically when it's thrown. It's common to attach these to the backstay which is often near the top of the pole, but the best place will depend on your boat.

3 is intended to be attached to the horseshoe. Ideally you'll throw the horseshoe within the MOB's reach, in which case the dan is now attached to him and is how you'll find your way back if you're not able to stop the boat instantly.

Alternatively if you get it nearby but not on top of him, the theory is that the dan gives him a target to swim to since he'll be unable to see the horseshoe among the waves. He can then pull in the rope and find the additional buoyancy of the horseshoe to keep him afloat while he's waiting. Of course, the swimming speed of an unexpected and fully clothed MOB is pretty minimal, but that's the idea.

Pete

 

[PlankWalker]

What prv sais

 

[westhinder]

I am still undecided whether to tie the danbuoy to the horseshoe. If the two are separate, it should be possible to throw the danbuoy first, as a marker to come back to, and keep the horseshoe for when you return to the MOB and give it to them, rather than throw it, and risk it being carried away by the wind. I have a horseshoe with a long rope on a reel, so I could stream it out and run a circle around the MOB, so they could grab it and have a link with the boat. At least, that's the theory, I suppose.
A related point, is it possible to buy the flag separately? My flag is wrapped so tightly round the pole, I doubt it would unfurl of its own accord.

 

[bbg]

Danbouy and horseshoe should be attached together, with a drogue to prevent drift.

Throw them immediately. They will mark the spot. Danbuoy will give the MOB something to look for and swim towards. And when he gets there, the horseshoe buoy will give him something to keep afloat. The drogue can be simple - a series of large plastic drinks bottles with the top cut off, then attach a three-point bridle to the cut end (just make some holes in the bottle and attach some parachute cord). Something to prevent the whole setup drifting in the wind.

And one more thing, the flag should not be rolled around the pole, but folded back and forth from the inner end to the outer. When it gets released it should be able to flow completely free. Many people use a bit of plastic pipe on the backstay and stuff it up that so the flag flies free as soon as it is deployed.

Edit - with your setup an alternative is to use a piece of plastic pipe and put it down over the flag and light. Attach the lanyard that activates the light to the plastic pipe. Then run a loose piece of light light from the top of the pipe to the backstay. Probably a good idea to close off the top of the pipe in some way so it does not slip down. Then, when you throw the system overboard the pole will slide out of the pipe (because the pipe is attached to the backstay), the flag will unfurl and the lanyard for the light will get triggered (because it is attached to the piece of pipe).

Make sense?

In the image below, 4 is a strobe but that is on the pole on your setup.

 

[prv]

I am still undecided whether to tie the danbuoy to the horseshoe. If the two are separate, it should be possible to throw the danbuoy first, as a marker to come back to, and keep the horseshoe for when you return to the MOB and give it to them, rather than throw it, and risk it being carried away by the wind.

Bear in mind that the standard danbuoy / horseshoe combination was popularised several decades ago, when nobody wore lifejackets except possibly in heavy weather (and even then, they might have preferred harnesses instead). So if someone was in the water, it was imperative to get them some buoyancy ASAP. By the time you come back to your MOB in their heavy 1970s oilskins, intending to give them your horseshoe, they may have already sunk. In any case, if you've come back under control and are about to get a line on them and bring them aboard (or at least be able to hold them up) is there much point in the horseshoe now anyway?

These standard rigs usually include a small drogue in an attempt to stop them being blown away; I've no idea how successful they really are.

I have a horseshoe with a long rope on a reel, so I could stream it out and run a circle around the MOB, so they could grab it and have a link with the boat. At least, that's the theory, I suppose.

That's essentially the "Seattle Sling" method, available as a kit under various names ("OSCAR" springs to mind). In tests in the US it was by far the most effective method and strongly recommended. If you use a buoyant strop instead of a conventional horseshoe, you can attach the rope to a halyard and lift the casualty on board.

Pete

 

[bbg]

With the Seattle Sling or Lifesling method, it is essential that the rope is buoyant.

 

[prv]

With the Seattle Sling or Lifesling method, it is essential that the rope is buoyant.

Indeed

Pete

 

[pcatterall]

1 and 2 should be tied to the boat so that the light and flag activate automatically when it's thrown. It's common to attach these to the backstay which is often near the top of the pole, but the best place will depend on your boat.

3 is intended to be attached to the horseshoe. Ideally you'll throw the horseshoe within the MOB's reach, in which case the dan is now attached to him and is how you'll find your way back if you're not able to stop the boat instantly.

Alternatively if you get it nearby but not on top of him, the theory is that the dan gives him a target to swim to since he'll be unable to see the horseshoe among the waves. He can then pull in the rope and find the additional buoyancy of the horseshoe to keep him afloat while he's waiting. Of course, the swimming speed of an unexpected and fully clothed MOB is pretty minimal, but that's the idea.

Pete

If the boat is moving the buoy may well be beyond swiming range of a casualty especially wearing an inflated life jacket.
The line at the light does not appear to be detachable so attaching the other end to the boat might not be the best plan

 

[lw395]

I work to the theory that the dan and horseshoe go over the side ASAP and tied together.
The yacht and MOB then meet at the danbuoy light.
RORC rules are that the helm must be able to get the gear over the side in a few seconds or somesuch.
It's a good thing to test and that the drogue etc works reasonably.

Seattle Sling is a very good thing, but totally different.
On the mooring we leave grubby old horseshoe good to go, it has come close to being needed for real in a marina.
Also there is an old heaving line on deck always.

 

[lw395]

If the boat is moving the buoy may well be beyond swiming range of a casualty especially wearing an inflated life jacket.
...

But it gives you a marker.
If you note the course you were sailing, you have a position line, but it's quality is limited by the drogue.

 

[prv]

Of course, the swimming speed of an unexpected and fully clothed MOB is pretty minimal

If the boat is moving the buoy may well be beyond swiming range of a casualty

Errm, yes?

The line at the light does not appear to be detachable so attaching the other end to the boat might not be the best plan

The line is attached to the black plastic clip, which I assume contains a magnet that's holding open a reed switch inside. Pull the string, the clip comes away, and the light illuminates.

What else would it be for?

Pete

 

[William_H]

You probably don't need this gear as you probably are not trying to comply with Yachting Org requirements for oean racing. But rather are trying to do the right thing. However these people have much experience and better still if you do comply with their requirements you will have a certain legal and moral umbrella against criticism should a tragedy occur. ie you can tell your self and others you did your best taking the best advice.
Oz requirements call for lifebuoy to be atached to the pole and flag with 3 metres of floating line. Flag must fly at least 1.8 metres above the water.
http://www.yachting.org.au/wp-conte...3-16-Special-Regulations-Part-1-Keelboats.pdf especially page 49 may be of interest. These requirements although Australian are in line with international requirements. 1,2,3,4 refer to categories of safety standards for races and boats. 1 being cross open ocean, 4 being in shaltered waters. All sorts of stuff there. good luck olewill

 

[Jokani]

Many thanks for all the responses.

Here is my plan:

1) Flake flag, attach light and flag retaining clips to adjacent radar mast

2) Attach danbuoy to horseshoe, flake and velcro connecting line

3) Attach drogue to horseshoe

So a simple MOB procedure summary would be:

1) Throw danbuoy followed by horseshoe and drogue towards MOB, retaining clips will release flag and light

2) Return to MOB, deploy MOB rescue sling, encircle MOB and recover using sling

A quick note on horseshoes, I appreciate they may now be outdated, but I get some comfort from the thought of throwing something else buoyant to a MOB. Plus, I have purchased it so I guess I may as well to use it, although the downside is it will add to the guard rail clutter.

Those Aussie regs were useful!

Thanks again.

 

[bbg]

What I was taught, when I was learning to be an instructor many moons ago, was to throw anything into the water that would float, as quickly as possible. Not only for some flotation (which the horseshoe ring will give) but also as a marker. Find a marker and you are starting your search reasonably close to the MOB (if you happen to lose sight).

Your plan sounds good.

 

[concentrik]

A related point, is it possible to buy the flag separately? My flag is wrapped so tightly round the pole, I doubt it would unfurl of its own accord.

We used one of those fluorescent 'tabards' you get in car breakdown kits - compulsory in some EU countries. Not the whole tabard, of course, that would look daft. It has those highly reflective strips sewn in, they really bounce a torch beam back at night.

 

[bbg]

A related point, is it possible to buy the flag separately? My flag is wrapped so tightly round the pole, I doubt it would unfurl of its own accord.

Just saw this. As noted in my earlier post, the flag should not be wrapped around the pole at all. It should be flaked back and forth so it streams straight out.

 

[duncan99210]

We used one of those fluorescent 'tabards' you get in car breakdown kits - compulsory in some EU countries. Not the whole tabard, of course, that would look daft. It has those highly reflective strips sewn in, they really bounce a torch beam back at night.

+1 however this led, in due course, to an enquiry from SWMBO as to why we had half a fluorescent jacket cluttering up the boat, as I'd done the usual "I'll keep this in case I need another flag".....

 

[westhinder]

We used one of those fluorescent 'tabards' you get in car breakdown kits - compulsory in some EU countries. Not the whole tabard, of course, that would look daft. It has those highly reflective strips sewn in, they really bounce a torch beam back at night.

Great suggestion, thanks.
Where are my scissors?