Nick_H
Well-Known Member
Anyone know roughly how many hours this should take for a twin installation? Local agent reckons 51 hrs, that's almost a week and a half.
D12-715hp 800 hour service
- Thread starter Nick_H
- Start date
Divemaster1
Well-Known Member
Presume this includes removing engines .. 
Joking aside:
how much is travel time (agent to & from boat)?
Surprised if it is more than 1/2 man-day per system (Fuel, Lube, Cooling, Exhaust) per engine... assuming good access of curse.
.... waiting for someone more knowledgable to post and educate me...
Joking aside:
how much is travel time (agent to & from boat)?
Surprised if it is more than 1/2 man-day per system (Fuel, Lube, Cooling, Exhaust) per engine... assuming good access of curse.
.... waiting for someone more knowledgable to post and educate me...
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
Travel time is extra
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
I'm keen to understand if the extra service work at 800 hrs is particularly time intensive, because i've only been charged for about 16 hours in previous years, and maybe also requires a special service kit on top of all the normal parts, which they've referred to as a "repair kit" at £200 per engine, which I also haven't had previously.
vas
Well-Known Member
so, you don't actually know what's included in this service?
I mean is it something equivalent to the 50K service for a car where they change timing belts et al (yes I know you don't have such stuff) but maybe it's meant to be intercoolers out job, injector cleaning, or whatnot?
I mean is it something equivalent to the 50K service for a car where they change timing belts et al (yes I know you don't have such stuff) but maybe it's meant to be intercoolers out job, injector cleaning, or whatnot?
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
I used to service my own D12s
OK it was only annual servicing.
I understand that the big service is at around 1000 hours.
And then, I think it was valve clearances that was theimportant thing to do.
Expensive items might be injectors but I wouldnt have thought you would replace them unless they were suspect.
51 hours seems a lot to me.
Ask Col or Volvopaul
OK it was only annual servicing.
I understand that the big service is at around 1000 hours.
And then, I think it was valve clearances that was theimportant thing to do.
Expensive items might be injectors but I wouldnt have thought you would replace them unless they were suspect.
51 hours seems a lot to me.
Ask Col or Volvopaul
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
The extras are "regulation tippers", which I take to mean valve clearance, which I think is a floor up job, and cleaning out heat exchangers for the engines and gearboxes, plus something more than usual on the sea water pump. Only seems like an extra day or two to me, but i'm no expert.
[2068]
...
The main extra thing the owners manual mentions is checking the valve clearances, which can take a while depending on what needs to be dismantled to get to them. Cleaning out heat exchangers as well is never a bad idea.
But ... 51 hours???
You could pay for VolvoPaul to fly out Business Class, buy him lobster and Veuve Clicquot for three evenings, and you'd still be quids in.
dv.
But ... 51 hours???
You could pay for VolvoPaul to fly out Business Class, buy him lobster and Veuve Clicquot for three evenings, and you'd still be quids in.
dv.
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
Well we have done that previously (minus the business class, lobster and champagne!) when there were a few boats to group together, but I spoke to VP and we decided it didn't make sense for him to fly out just to service one boat. Mind you, that was before the local agent quoted 51 hours!
jfm
Well-Known Member
Blimey Nick. I thought the biggie was 1000hrs, same recollection as Hurricane, but you can check on volvo website
The basics are
change oil gbox
change oil engine
oil filter gbox
oil filters engine
crankcase breather filters
fuel filters
pump impellers
air filters
zincs
and the biggies are
valve clearances
rod out the heat exchangers
change coolant
Even with all the biggies there is no way that is more than 4 man days, tops
Your rocker covers will come off inside the e/r - saloon floor does not have to come off. The valve work is therefore 4 hours max. It should be done, becuase you have the rocker arms on a post which can snap, rather than the later ones which are floating
Your port water pump is a sod - you have to lie on the top of the engine and reach down w left hand, due to wing fuel tanks. Of course the professional service firm will not touch this, they will merely bill you for it, as VP and I discovered when he serviced your boat in 2010 and we found an old impeller in the port side and a newish one in starboard. Poor old VP did this very diligently, and prob added 2 hours to the job. Mark it by spray painting the nuts, and see if they actually change it
5 days absolute max!
The basics are
change oil gbox
change oil engine
oil filter gbox
oil filters engine
crankcase breather filters
fuel filters
pump impellers
air filters
zincs
and the biggies are
valve clearances
rod out the heat exchangers
change coolant
Even with all the biggies there is no way that is more than 4 man days, tops
Your rocker covers will come off inside the e/r - saloon floor does not have to come off. The valve work is therefore 4 hours max. It should be done, becuase you have the rocker arms on a post which can snap, rather than the later ones which are floating
Your port water pump is a sod - you have to lie on the top of the engine and reach down w left hand, due to wing fuel tanks. Of course the professional service firm will not touch this, they will merely bill you for it, as VP and I discovered when he serviced your boat in 2010 and we found an old impeller in the port side and a newish one in starboard. Poor old VP did this very diligently, and prob added 2 hours to the job. Mark it by spray painting the nuts, and see if they actually change it
5 days absolute max!
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
Only received the quote this evening, so i've asked them for a breakdown of the extra 5 days (and left them plenty of room to blame a clerical error)
MedMilo
Well-Known Member
Well with 650hrs on my D12's....that's something to look forward to, possibly by the end of this season! And with a Sq58 it's a floor up job to get to rocker cover off. Might even start thinking about talking to others in Cala D'or with similar engines to see who might want to do some kind of 'group deal' for VP to come out next winter and service a few (if that's what's required to make the maths work). As much as being attracted by potential savings, it would be great to know that everything on that (long) list had been done properly. Better get the Veuve on ice...
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
Hi nick just picked up on this thread, it took me a bout 14 hours tops to service both engines and the genny, they were long days.
Out of interest , the floor on your boat is well high enough to do the valves.
The port raw water pump was easy to get at as I managed to get in front of the engine.
It takes about 20 mins to take the pump off, 12 bolts and the plastic belt covers.
Unless your overheating I can't see why you need to rod the heat exchangers.
I've just served a cranchi 50 this week same motors and di it in 9 hours not Inc valves, but j f m will know how long it takes to check valves, not long with the right tools which I have.
Your engine room is a peach to work in.
You will find the engineers over there work in pairs so it would be 25 hours times two men, I'd say that's where the figures come from.
Either way I bet your shocked at charges, ball park all parts and labour here the cranchi was around £2300 Inc vat, parts labour and coolant change.
Out of interest , the floor on your boat is well high enough to do the valves.
The port raw water pump was easy to get at as I managed to get in front of the engine.
It takes about 20 mins to take the pump off, 12 bolts and the plastic belt covers.
Unless your overheating I can't see why you need to rod the heat exchangers.
I've just served a cranchi 50 this week same motors and di it in 9 hours not Inc valves, but j f m will know how long it takes to check valves, not long with the right tools which I have.
Your engine room is a peach to work in.
You will find the engineers over there work in pairs so it would be 25 hours times two men, I'd say that's where the figures come from.
Either way I bet your shocked at charges, ball park all parts and labour here the cranchi was around £2300 Inc vat, parts labour and coolant change.
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
Thanks Paul, that's great information for my discussion with the agent
As you know from our own discussion, I want to do any and all maintenance/checks that can sensibly be done, so, for example, i'm happy to pay for them to rod the heat exchangers even though I don't have an overheat problem, just in case any muck is starting to build up.
It does seem though that there isn't enough work to justify anything like 51 hours, so maybe it really is a clerical error, maybe someone came up with the total hours req'd of 25.5, then decided to use 2 engineers, and the guy preparing the quote then doubled the hours? That might be wishful thinking on my part of course.
I should hear back from them today, as they're supposed to be doing the work next week.
As you know from our own discussion, I want to do any and all maintenance/checks that can sensibly be done, so, for example, i'm happy to pay for them to rod the heat exchangers even though I don't have an overheat problem, just in case any muck is starting to build up.
It does seem though that there isn't enough work to justify anything like 51 hours, so maybe it really is a clerical error, maybe someone came up with the total hours req'd of 25.5, then decided to use 2 engineers, and the guy preparing the quote then doubled the hours? That might be wishful thinking on my part of course.
I should hear back from them today, as they're supposed to be doing the work next week.
Latestarter1
Well-Known Member
Struggling a bit here..
Worked with Volvo Truck in the US many years ago helping them develop their MVASIST program which enables any dealer to track service records and give accurate estimate of service costs. Volvo fit a large percentage of Cummins engines and it was just a matter of integrating Cummins SRT (Standard Repair Times) into the Volvo system, and understanding scope of any extended warranties.
Considering that Volvo pretty much own their marine aftermarket this all seems a total nonsense. Part of an engine installation review should add a difficulty factor to address access issues i.e lifting decks etc to SRT's. This should not be rocket science.
I looked at a package which boatbuilder wanted to implement a few years ago which was a three year service contract built into the base price of vessel and optional three year contract if purchased before expiry of initial contract. However my contact with marine service dealers was not encouraging. Marine engine servicing appears to work on the basis of whatever the market will stand, or simple smash and grab raid stuff.
CAT ET and Cummins INSITE diagnostic tool takes operator though troubleshooting steps, logs parts required and provides service controller with SRT to complete the task, equivalent Volvo automotive tool must have the same funcionality.
Seems to me like VP service dealers are more than a little out of control!
Worked with Volvo Truck in the US many years ago helping them develop their MVASIST program which enables any dealer to track service records and give accurate estimate of service costs. Volvo fit a large percentage of Cummins engines and it was just a matter of integrating Cummins SRT (Standard Repair Times) into the Volvo system, and understanding scope of any extended warranties.
Considering that Volvo pretty much own their marine aftermarket this all seems a total nonsense. Part of an engine installation review should add a difficulty factor to address access issues i.e lifting decks etc to SRT's. This should not be rocket science.
I looked at a package which boatbuilder wanted to implement a few years ago which was a three year service contract built into the base price of vessel and optional three year contract if purchased before expiry of initial contract. However my contact with marine service dealers was not encouraging. Marine engine servicing appears to work on the basis of whatever the market will stand, or simple smash and grab raid stuff.
CAT ET and Cummins INSITE diagnostic tool takes operator though troubleshooting steps, logs parts required and provides service controller with SRT to complete the task, equivalent Volvo automotive tool must have the same funcionality.
Seems to me like VP service dealers are more than a little out of control!
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
I've just received the reply from the dealer, seems it's not a clerical error:
Yes 16 hours is for the service but the protocol for 800H is with more work :
1) Tippers regulation : 6H
2) Water heat exchangers : 15H
3) Inverters exchangers : 6H
4) Water pumps : 2 x 3H
5) Test on sea : 2H
The “Kit reparation” is for the water pumps (parts like shaft, ….)
Any comments?
Yes 16 hours is for the service but the protocol for 800H is with more work :
1) Tippers regulation : 6H
2) Water heat exchangers : 15H
3) Inverters exchangers : 6H
4) Water pumps : 2 x 3H
5) Test on sea : 2H
The “Kit reparation” is for the water pumps (parts like shaft, ….)
Any comments?
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Seems like the usual Med rip off rates to me. What are 'Tippers' and what are they going to do on the water pumps for 6 hours? Change impellors? Also are you going to allow them to zoom off to sea in your boat for a 'test'? Sounds like you should cross VP's palms with as much silver as it takes to get him on a Sleasyjet to Nice
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
Seems like the usual Med rip off rates to me. What are 'Tippers' and what are they going to do on the water pumps for 6 hours? Change impellors? Also are you going to allow them to zoom off to sea in your boat for a 'test'? Sounds like you should cross VP's palms with as much silver as it takes to get him on a Sleasyjet to Nice
Mike, I went out there 2 years ago, serviced sq58 d12, targa 52 d12, the said princess 57d12s and a targa 47 d9s, all straight oils and filters, impellers etc, in other words full services to each engine, and 4 onan gensets,they were long days but all done in 5 days, so we know how long it takes to carry out the said work.
I left all the old impellers too, so no monkey business going off!.
Yes your right the marine industry tries to charge what the job will stand, if I wasn't so busy here in the miserable uk, I'd be out there with nick.
Nick maybe this needs organising for next year but to be done say beginning of Apri, I book you a slot and stick to it.
Sounds like there charging a months work!
DAKA
Well-Known Member
(edit section deleted following Mike's advice)
Clean sea water will not wear out the raw water pumps either.
It makes more sense to buy a spare raw water pump and carry it on board for a quick change.
They dont just fail and leave you stranded, they start to leak slowly.
10 hours later they start to leak faster but less than a tap.
several months later your bearings may fail due to salt contamination.
If you have a spare pump on board you can get any mechanic to change it as soon as you notice a leak.
Last edited:
jfm
Well-Known Member
Nick - I have been there and watched VolvoPaul do the valve clearances on my 2x D12s. Working on his own (and ignoring the 2 hours to lift the floor on Sq58, which as VP and i have confirmed isn't necessary on your p57) I reckon it is 2.5 hours, and that is with him and me having cups of tea, chatting, watching the dolly birds walk by and fixing up to see them later, and all the usual workmanlike peripherals
The 6 hours on water pumps is just pure comedy. The 21 hours (=3 days!!!) to rod 4 x small heat exchangers is criminal in my book. I mean it's fraud, if it were in the UK
Last edited: