Cruising info needed.

[gunnarsilins]

Its getting closer to to our 16 month cruise and would like to gather some information!

Or plan is to leave Stocholm early May -03 and sail around England/Scotland (except the English S coast) and over to France.
Coast-hopping along the French, Spanish and Portuguesian coasts to Gibraltar.
Then to the Canaries - Madeira and back in to the Med, finally the French and German canals back to the Baltic Sea by the end of August -04.

Our cruising style is quite laid back - when possible spending nights in harbours/anchorages and do pretty much sightseeing. If avoidable, we prefer to spend an extra day in harbour, having a G&T and poking the navel instead of bashing around and getting wet in a F 8.
Basic crew will be me and 'SWMBO' My kids and friends will join now and then.

The questions are:

1. Suggested time needed for cruising from SE England (Suffolk area) round Scotland (Pentland Firth, not Caledonian Canal), including short diversions into the Orkneys and outer Hebrides. The Scottish West coast, Irish Sea, Wales and Cornwall. Not the South coast of England.
Suggested 'best value for the money' pilot books for areas covered.

2. Suggested time needed for cruising from Cherbourg area, maybe a visit to the Channel Islands, along the whole French coast to the Spanish border.
Suggested Pilot books.

3. From Spanish Basque along the coast to Cabo Sao Vicente. Suggested Pilot books.

Thanks!

 

[tcm]

Re: Git!

ooh, he's made all jealous.

I wd suggest aiming to get out of western approaches by end october 03, as our storms turn up then and the horrible weather gets even worse. So be in portugal by then. Macmillans will do for alls uk and france coast. The Cumberlidge ones save weight on account of relieving you of tons of money! Nice pics but not indispensable.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Crusing Association Almanac...

...covers just about everything from the Faroes to Gibraltar.

Can be ordered from the CA, or any bookshop dealing with Imrays.

 

[tomboy352]

Just a suggestion, between the Nw coast of Wales and North Devon, the area becomes a bit thin on the ground to spend long periods cruising. However, on the other side of the Irish Sea, perhaps Carnsore Point to Dingle Bay, you could spend oodles of time and not be disappointed. SW Ireland to Brittany would then be a good run, Via the South West of England of course. Mac's and Cruising Asc. give value for money as pilots. Plenty of essential detail, however they leave you to make your own impressions about harbours as there are a lack of photographs and dont give you much idea of what to expect of a place. This is purely a personal observation and in no way wishes to undermine any of the Southern Irish Sea harbours.

 

[spark]

Give yourselves at least a month to explore the west coast of Scotland/Hebrides (Cape Wrath to Mull of Kintyre). I've sailed most of the route that you're proposing as well as the New England coast and none of it compares to home waters.

 

[extravert]

Last summer I sailed round UK so covered part of your intended cruise, the Northern, Eastern and Western coast of Britain. There is a website describing where we went, what we found, and also charts, pilots, publishers and other information which you may find useful.

The website starts here...

http:// [url]http://www.xrayted.freeserve.co.uk [/url]

You will find that you often have little choice about which pilot books and charts you use for the remote UK areas (North West and North Scotland), not many people go there so not much is published. Charts in particular are expensive, and as the coast is complicated you need a lot of them.

I would recommend that you get more than Macmillans Almanac for North Scotland. You will be sailing in the most difficult and remote of British waters and you need good information. Pentland Firth is notorious for small boats (ie. less than a ship), especially going Westwards, and you must follow the 'rules' given in the yacht pilot books for a safe passage. Tides can reach 18 knots there. It doesn't get much better until you have rounded Cape Wrath either.

Having said that if you choose your time you will have no difficulty, and you will probably find some local company, half the boats we met on Scotland's North coast were Scandinavians doing exactly the same as you. Also by going round the top you see the best part of Scotland, Cape Wrath to Oban, which you mostly miss if you go through the expensive Caledonian Canal.

How long will it take? As long as you've got and you will still miss places. However I would suggest that you don't linger on the East coast (it's not so interesting) or the North coast and Northern Isles (too stressful), but spend your time on the whole Scottish West Coast. 2 to 3 months on the British part will give you a leisurely pace and time to visit places.

 

[gunnarsilins]

Thanks extravert!

Thank you for valuable information!
We have a fair idea of what to expect from Scotland - in 1999 we bought our Moody 42 ketch in Rhu - a few miles north of Glasgow and had a fantastic cruise home to Stockholm, through Crinan and Caledonian Canal.

Regarding Englands East Coast - maybe we should give it a miss alltogether.
But when we sailed from Scotland to Stockholm we went straight and non-stop from Inverness to Thyboron in Denmark.
So I think would be nice to see at least something from the East part of England. This area is also 'on the way' if we do some cruising around the Frisian islands.

Unfortunately we cannot afford to spend 2-3 months in Scotland. I think it would be wise to be out of the Biscay area before the weather start to get nasty in the autumn.

So I must get an idea of how much time we should spend between Normandy and Southern Portugal.

 

[Gunfleet]

Re: Thanks extravert!

<<Regarding Englands East Coast - maybe we should give it a miss alltogether>>
Take no notice of extravert. If you read his log on his web site he hasn't got a clue what is or isn't on the East coast. Perhaps the pilotage frightens him. Anyone whose experience of Harwich is limited to Shotley and then sailed direct from Harwich to Ramsgate has missed the best bits. It's like driving round the M25 and then saying London is boring.

 

[gunnarsilins]

OK! Please enlighten...

...me of the best bits of the East coast!

 

[Juggler7823]

I know that the tides in the Pentland Firth are quick but are they really 18knots?

Roy

 

[extravert]

That is the absolute maximum rate that is reached off one of the headlands in exceptional conditions. The information comes directly off the chart. We were astounded when we read it, but that's what it says.

 

[dickh]

Re: OK! Please enlighten...

The best bits of the East Coast...
Where do we start?
Southwold - come in on a rising tide, call up Harbour Mistress on VHF(she's very nice and helpful);
River Deben; Felixstowe Ferry in the entrance; Ramsholt; Waldringfield & Woodbridge. Make sure you have the latest pilot notes or VHF 08 before you come in for the Pilot, the sandbanks are constantly shifting... but a lovely river.
River Orwell; Pin Mill and Ipswich
River Stour
Further round the coast, Brightlingsea - again call the h/master as you come in (VHF 06 I believe but there is a notice)
West Mersea
Maldon & Heybridge Basin
etc, etc
Give Burnham on Crouch a miss - I find it boring and lots of racers.
River Medway(but look out for the Montgomery - WW2 Ammunition ship wrecked on the sands v near the entrance channel, very well bouyed - too dangerous to move...)
Queensborough;
Chatham;
Go thro' the River Swale on a rising tide,

And get a copy of East Coast Rivers for all the information and enjoy your cruise.



dickh
I'd rather be sailing...

 

[HaraldS]

Nice journey! Have done a variant, didn't include any of the English coast, and so can't comment on that. But also went from Sweden to Scotland, and would recommend to spent at least 4 weeks in western Scotland and the Hebrides. Very nice. I went on west around Ireland, also very recommendable and beautiful. Didn't head down to the Iberian Peninsula like you seem to plan, since I did this before (long time ago), so I have no recent info to offer on that. I went to the Azores instead, and then Madeira.

Hard to make timing suggestions. I regret that I had too little time for Ireland (just two weeks), I had to rush in the end to drop off a friend of my son in Cork and then the next bad weather system was coming in and I decided to head South before the worst. I think having plenty of time, and you should be very fine with your 16 months is key. Similarly we spent two and a half weeks in the Azores and it should have been two months.

An interesting question is where you would want to spend the winter. If your take your time while up north, like recommended, you'll get to the Canaries in late summer, beginning of autumn. Still a nice time to cruise there, but heading back up to Gibraltar late in the year you could encounter some serious weather. Canaries hence seem like a good choice to ignore the winter.

Haven't been to the Canaries this summer, but plan to do so next summer. This year we turned in Madeira and sailed back to the Algarve. Madeira is definitely a nice place to visit, though it has been a bit difficult for yachts to find a place. The marina in Funchal is very small and always overfilled. It should be a lot better when you get there: A month ago a new marina started operating close to the eastern end of the island, called Marina Quinta do Lordes and they are planning another one west of Funchal.

If you prefer anchoring to marinas, then Baia Abra, even further east of the new marina is an excellent anchorage, with lots of space and good holding. The gusts that come from the hills could be a bit disturbing but one quickly gets used to them. If you want more info about Madeira, just drop me a note, I know the island very well since we have a second home there.

Here are some good pilot books that I have: The ones from Scotland and Ireland I will not be using in the near future, so if you want them.


Scotland: The Cruising Guides from the Clyde Cruising Club. I still have:
Ardnamurchan to Cape Wrath
Kintyre to Ardnamurchan
Firth of Clyde

Ireland: The Cruising Guides from the Irish Cruising Club. I still have:
Irish C.C., South & West Coast of Ireland
Irish C.C., East & North Coast of Ireland

Atlantic:

RCC Atlantic Islands
Anne Hammick
ISBN 0852884001

Atlantic Spain and Portugal
Anne Hammick
ISBN 0852884052

Of course MacMillian Reeds has been mentioned many times, almost a must have.

Hope this was of help.

 

[sailbadthesinner]

Re: Thanks extravert!

But if you are a fields and hills man London is boring.

I can see why extravert does not like the east coast when he is really keen about the w scotland. they are v different.

Beer! Now there's a temporary solution.

 

[Gunfleet]

Your wish is my command

I won't make claims for the East Coast above Southwold. I'll leave that to others. Southwold is lovely and Adnam's beer worth stopping for on its own. You moor with a lot of other boats outside a pub that serves great fish & chips and the mooring is inexpensive. The Alde and the Ore are beautiful, you moor or anchor and use your tender to get to some great restaurants, but you really need the local chart for the entrance. Ditto the Deben. Perhaps you can get it from Southwold Harbourmaster. Opera is available at certain times of the year on the Ore (I'm not kidding). When the other chap 'extravert' was bored in Harwich he was at the confluence of two great sailing and anchoring rivers - the Orwell and Stour. You can sail on them in virtually any weather and if you are short of supplies you can go to a marina right in the middle of Ipswich.
If you fancy yourself at pilotage you can wiggle your way up the Walton backwaters. After that it's an easy day sail to Brightlingsea (or anchor in Pyfleet on the River Colne) Mersea, Tollesbury, Bradwell (chapel over 1000 years old in more or less original state), Maldon to see the Thames barges but probably not to stay because it dries. Also we're not keen on Vikings overnighting because the last lot in Maldon stayed for 1000 years. Then there's the Roach, the Crouch and the Thames to London, where there are several marinas. When you're tired of London you're tired of Life, as Johnson said. Others will fill you in about the Medway and when you've had enough of all that you can retire to the Royal Temple Yacht Club in Ramsgate to plan your passage south. Was there ever a friendlier yacht club? If you cover all that ground it will take about ten days. You will have paid not a penny for anchoring, little for mooring and marina charges are half what the south coast lot pay. You will have passed places written about by Conrad, Dickens, Ransome (oh I shan't go on about the writers and painters). You will have gone throgh and past more sites of special scientific interest (wildlife) than you would have thought possible within 50 miles of London. You will probably have eaten native Oysters (in Mersea), local smoked hams and cheeses (if you make it up the Ore). You should buy a copy of East coast rivers. And you should remember that sailing down the west coast of England puts the prevailing wind on the nose. For most of the east coast it's a reach or a beam reach.

 

[extravert]

Re: Thanks extravert!

Yes, I know, I get berated again and again for saying that the East coast is boring for a deep keeled boat. That's just my opinion and everyone is entitled to theirs. However, saying I don't know what I'm talking about is not quite right. I lived in Norfolk for 19 years and then Newcastle for 11. I have spent the majority of my life living and sailing on the East coast. Thankfully now I sail somewhere more interesting.

Have you sailed along the North West and North coasts of Scotland I wonder? The scenery is spectacular with mountains plunging down into the sea, hundreds of islands, long fjord-like sea lochs with waterfalls cascading over cliffs, bleak forbidding capes and headlands, remote isolated communities, deep water everywhere, the list goes on. Where as too much of the East coast for a deep keeled yacht is extended passages along a low straight featureless coast with few places to go. I am talking Pentland Firth to North Foreland here, not just particular bits. A boat on an extended passage does not have time to wait for the tide to explore every backwater. This is what the original poster is asking about.

My advice stays the same. If a deep keeled yacht is sailing around UK, pass the East coast quickly and linger in Western Scotland. I'm not alone in this opinion. Most people who sail around UK feel the same. Have you read what Libby Purves had to say?

 

[extravert]

Whoops sorry, I'll preview it this time..

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.xrayted.freeserve.co.uk>http://www.xrayted.freeserve.co.uk</A>

 

[Gunfleet]

Re: even more thanks extravert!

16 months doesn't require dashing past everything. And just how deep is this keel of yours? Mine's 1.5 metres and I find the East coast no problem, with a bit of planning. As it happens I share your prejudices about a) sailing in Norfolk and b)travelling around the west coast of Scotland. I have often made the circuit from the Clyde to Arran to Mull of Kintyre to Isay and Jura and sometimes Colonsay... but on foot & ferry! I look forward to doing it by boat. Libby Purves is a comedy writer (and none the worse for that) but even she recommends the traditional clockwise circumnavigation. Best wishes

 

[extravert]

Re: even more thanks extravert!

16 months is a long time (I'm jealous too) but that time is to get a long way. Gunnar replied in an earlier post to this thread that 2 months was too long for the UK because he has Biscay to get across. Therefore to do 3 coasts of Britain in 4 to 6 weeks he has to do some dashing somewhere.

My keel is 2m, and I can't dry out. This is inconvenient to get into places in the shallower end of the country, and often impossible to stay, especially around spring tides. In some places in Scotland the depth sounder went off the scale at 120m. The question sometimes becomes 'Have I got enough anchor chain?'

 

[steffen]

Hi Harald,
You're the men i am looking for ,as far as sailing that is -
I intend to do Holland-England-Azores-Madeira-Canaries-dont know after that in a couple of years after early retirement.

Q1: what maps required for the crossing to the Azores? I looked at the Imray site but could find anything suitable there.

Q2: How did you plan the trip in advance? I dont want to buy expensive maps now to find them out of date when i depart.

Q3: Where did you leave the England for the Azores?

Q4: Which period did you start the crossing?

Q5: How long did the crossing take you/ whats the distance.

There are probably a 859 more questions to ask so i may/like to come back to you later.

I think that advanced planning, apart from beiing a necessity, is half the fun of a trip like that.

Thanks Steffen