Cruising Chute

Re: I totally agree

I find the cruising chute comes alive with the apparant wind between 60 and 90 degrees. It still works well up to about 120 degrees. The spinnaker (I have a tri radial) is a must with apparant wind greater than 120 degrees but holds its own up to about 90 degrees. Between 50 and 60 degrees the cruising chute will fly but it takes a lot of work and the really a well trimmed genoa will perform better.

hope this helps

David

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Re: Me too

I think I listened to your advice 2 years ago when I was getting a down wind sail.

Since then we have had some fabulous spinnaker runs - culminating in the trip from Plymouth back to the Solent when we ran from Weymouth to the Hurst Castle in winds up to 26 knots apparent. Otherwsie this year we have been more like a motor boat with 5 consecutive weeks when we ddidn't put the sails up!

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Re: I totally agree

Between about 60 and 120 degreesA is really the sector for the asymmetric, with its hard luff and ability to be flattened by sheet pressure. Unfortunately this also produces an enormous upward component which crumpled (on my boat) a 75mm pole at about 9 knots wind. Admittedly there was no central restraint.

I find I can get a similar result by moving the windward guy-purchase farther forward on the toe-rail to tension the spinnaker luff and really strapping the whole lot in to flatten the sail - take the wind too far and you sacrifice forward speed to fury and excitement.

So I would say that in that sector of the apparent wind the cruising chute would produce equal or better results than the triradial spinnaker.

I certainly wouldn't suggest people ditch a perfectly good cruising chute if it's come to them with the boat - i would opine that it's far better to spend one's hard-earned dosh on a tri-radial spi than on a CC.

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Not really

The point I'm making is that the cruising chute is a compromise - neither fish, flesh nor good red herring.
Like all compromises its performance is compromised.

You'll do as well in most wind-speeds with a boomed-out foresail as with a cruising chute.
Once you've bought the pole gear you might as well have the performance and relative ease of trim you get from the spinnaker.

In any case, except for that very narrow close-reach sector the CC is pretty useless unless it is boomed out so, for most people, a CC is a poor investment.

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Re: Not really

I don't entirely agree with that.

I carry both an asymmetric and a symmetric; and find the asymmetric the more useful. It can be carried at anything between 50awa and 130awa tacked down to the foredeck, and beyond that it can either be set on the pole (i.e. with Guys) or have the clew poled out like a big genoa.

Compared to my #1 Genoa it is much bigger, and is made of much lighter material (0.75 oz nylon as opposed to 6-7oz dacron) so sets well in conditions when it is too light for the #1 to work well.


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Misunderstanding

I'm referring here to a cruising chute which is a different beast from an asymmetric (reaching) kite.

I too carry both - contrary to your experience I find the triradial symmetric spinnaker more useful.
This could be a down to a difference in boat weight/slipperiness resulting in bigger apparent wind shifts.
After all racing cats seldom run.

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Re: MPS?

My brother has done his sailing in Australia for the past 20 years. When he was on board with us in the summer, he referred to our sail as an MPS - Multi Purpose Spinnaker.

I took it to be a different name for a cruising chute, and that they are one and the same.

Or am I wrong, and an MPS is a different beast again?

<hr width=100% size=1>The problem is that God gave men a brain and a penis but only enough blood to use one at a time.
 
Re: Misunderstanding

I see - if you want to distinguish between a Cruising Chute and a geniune Asymmetric, then I agree totally - can't think of any good reason to go for a Cruising Chute.

In my case the difference in usability between the Sym and Asym has a lot to do with the sails themselves. The Asymmetric is a better cut sail, made of lighter fabric. The sym is heavier and too full cut to be of any use on anything other than a broad-reach to run

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Thanks to all of you for that its been really helpful. Perhaps its Old Dogs and New Tricks but I'm used to spinnakers having had raced Ospreys, Fireballs and GP's and as Charles says - we have the hardware for a spinnaker so I think you've persuaded me to take that option - with a snuffer.
Thanks again

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Claymore
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Thanks to all of you for that its been really helpful. Perhaps its Old Dogs and New Tricks but I'm used to spinnakers having raced Ospreys, Fireballs and GP's and as Charles says - we have the hardware for a spinnaker so I think you've persuaded me to take that option - with a snuffer.
Thanks again

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Claymore
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Marketing funny sails

There's nothing like coloured-sail marketing to create confusion, with different sail makers adopting different names for esentially the same sails - except that each sailmaker's version is better than everybody else's. Naturally.

FWIW, my understanding is:

Gennaker or genniker. A light weather sail flown tight luffed on a fetch or a reach. Probably 20% bigger than a cruising genoa. In more funky terms this can also be called a Code Zero and maybe supplied with an intergral furler. In less funky terms and slightly heavier weights they are sometimes called MPS (multi-purpose sails). Good for going more or less upwind in lightish airs. Other names - a Scooper (?)

Cruising chute. Set loose-luffed, tacked down on a strop somewhere near the bow (or sometimes from the end of a spinny pole), often not fully hoisted to top of mast. Colourful, good for offwind work short of a broad reach or run. Luff can be tightened to work on a close-ish reach, but not a fetch.

Assymetric. A spinnaker type sail tacked to (usually) a retracting bowsprit. Used by fast planing monohulls and multihulls where gybing reach-to-reach downwind is always faster than running. Found only on hairy boats, or those whose owners wish they had hairy boats.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>
 
I\'d agree broadley with Twister Ken

Genniker, usually lightweight radial cut slightly smaller than a full spinnaker and often used as an alternate term (esp in France) for an asymmetric which is the same size as a spinnaker, but has to be carried on a bowsprit pole and has a "hard" (a piece of cord instead of tape) in its luff.
It is longer in both foot and luff than a cruising chute and has a flatter, different cut. It's only of use on boats that will surf (most modern boats will) and is a fantastic reaching sail.
As already pointed out it is very destructive of bowsprits but otherwise pretty unhairy if you use it in the low windspeeds it's intended for.
With higher windspeeds you just go back to your genoa.


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Re: Marketing funny sails

We carry ..

A Code 0 (Doyle). Great sail, up to 12 knots AWS. Luff tension is ENORMOUS - and needs to be to make it fly well. We are rigged to generate 4 tonnes (4000 Kg) luff tension (18mm Spectra halyard, 20mm spectra strop at tack). Furler and swivel cost more than some sails. Needs a barber hauler to adjust leech tension according to how close to the wind, and what AWS is. Very unforgiving to use, but worth the effort.

Asymmetric VMG runner (Code 2A)(UK sails). Lovely docile sail, snuffer if breeze expected more than 20 knots. If we want to sail deep, we tack it to the pole, and square it a touch. Likes to have a daisy staysail inside as the wind comes aft (rather open leech).

Asy Code 5A (North). Also off a furler - disappointing sail, doesnt furl well, doesnt set well.

Symmetric (Code 2S) (Uk Sails). Cloth is too heavy for the purpose it is best suited for. Due to have stronger luffs sewn in, and to be shrunk a little and turned into a 4S, which it may well be good for.

1,3,5 are reaching sails, 2,4,6 are VMG runnning sails. 0 is close fetch to tight reach, and would normally peel to a jib top as the wind comes aft, before going to a code1.

The problem is that you cant take all these sails with you, either when cruising or racing. So for cruising we tend to take the Code0 and the 2A, for racing we add the 2S. We need over 20 knots of wind to make good progress deep downwind, at which point handing the 2S in family mode becomes an issue (it is over 3000 sq feet), so it is safer not to have it!

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I've read all the posts with interest -as I was thinking of getting a chute next season - I have a spinaker halyard but nothing else on my boat, so Fitting a 'proper' spinaker would entail fitting the deck gear also, whereas the chute will need relatively little - just the strop for the foot I guess. I noticed a few posts said that if you have the spinaker gear - you may as well go for a spinaker. well what is the consensus if you haven't got the gear?

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this years wind

was permanently on the nose indeed. We sailed along with good friends. They fitted a new Windex at some stage. After a day or two they said: look, we've fitted a new device that always tells you where we're going.

But we did use our newly bought second hand chute once. We did not pay much for it (300 Euros) and as it has the size of a football field we were a bit reluctant to fly it. But coming from Dunkirk and going to Ostend the speed went down and down so we decided to bring out the Valium and the chute and give it a go.

Not only did the chute double the speed (from 2,5 to 5+ knots) in some 6-8 knots true (not bad for a heavy weight like ours) but it turned out a doddle to lower as well. We made a tackle with a short line on the tack in order to adjust luff tension and also to completely free the tack when the sail was to come down. After that, it was just a matter of pulling the sail in under the boom, thus blanketing it by the main. Simple, really, even between just the two of us...


<hr width=100% size=1>Peter a/b SV Heerenleed, Steenbergen, Netherlands
 
Lowering and packing..

shorthanded is less of a problem with a cruising chute than a spinnaker, although it is still necessary to repack below if you haul the sail beneath the boom. I only ever do that now if the wind is blowing quite hard and we are pressed. Otherwise I use a big turtle, clipped to the wires and the coachroof handrails, just ahead of the mainsail.

I release the guy from the cockpit before walking forward, Jill releases the sheet when I'm ready. I gather the whole foot of the spinnaker, then she releases the halyard and lowers it slowly. (An alternative to this, which I have used singlehanded, is to throw the halyard overboard after taking one turn around a winch and the drag lets the sail lower at a controllable rate.) I stuff the sail into the turtle as fast as I can go. I don't release the sheet or guy from the sail until it is completely packed and I can attach the clews and head to Velcro straps on the turtle. Doing it this way means the sail is always ready for another hoist, never twisted or tangled, without having to go through a tedious repacking procedure below.

Having a good turtle helps enormously. Ours is rectangular with a very large and strongly Velcro'd flap, is stiffened with battens front and rear, netting bottom to drain water. We have modified its size and shape a couple of times but it is now very user friendly. A good and cheap way to improve a bag for cruising chutes is to make a hoop of plastic coated wire with a swaged joint and sew it into the neck. This holds the bag open to aid stuffing the sail in.

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Can only say that we sail two up in reasonable conditions with a spinnaker - no snuffer, but it is on the wish list.

Doubled up guys and sheets with the autohelm in control when raising'lowering.

Dont fly it in any more than 10knots apparent.

The above does mean that there is quite a bit of activity for me on the foredeck "no let go the green one. No. The gree. Yup. Not quite so fast. OK got it." sort of thing.

Regards

Donald

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