Gary Fox
N/A
So where is the tonnage which will miraculously be needing tens of thousands of deckies and engineers etc? It's in your imagination.
Cruise ships.
- Thread starter Mudisox
- Start date
Kukri
Well-known member
If a ship is in hot layup, she needs a full complement of deck and engine staff.
Kukri
Well-known member
Technically, the hotel staff are seafarers. They are all trained in emergency procedures and are usually very good at it - see the loss of the “Costa Concordia” and even more so the loss of the “Oceanos”...
MTS Oceanos - Wikipedia
I remember walking into the Mariners’ Club in Hong Kong and finding it full of very attractive young women. Seeing the Missions Padre, who was an old friend, I said “I thought the idea of places like this was to keep people like me away from pretty young women?”
He laughed and said “They are seafarers! They are croupiers off the gambling ships running cruises to nowhere!”
MTS Oceanos - Wikipedia
I remember walking into the Mariners’ Club in Hong Kong and finding it full of very attractive young women. Seeing the Missions Padre, who was an old friend, I said “I thought the idea of places like this was to keep people like me away from pretty young women?”
He laughed and said “They are seafarers! They are croupiers off the gambling ships running cruises to nowhere!”
capnsensible
Well-known member
The Canary Islands have been open as a cruise ship destination since November. The ones arriving this month are causing controversy as some islands are at a high level of restrictions for locals.
I don't know what the load factors are or how they are managing visits ashore, but there is a steady stream of arrivals.
I don't know what the load factors are or how they are managing visits ashore, but there is a steady stream of arrivals.
Metabarca
Well-known member
Here in Trieste we've got one large cruise ship undergoing refurbishment in dry dock and another one nearing completion at the Fincantieri yard in Monfalcone; their order books are full for the next few years (Fincantieri being one of the two largest cruise ship builders in the world).
ryanroberts
Well-known member
I matched on a location based dating app with a rather nice Uruguayan lady on board an anchored cruise ship near Weymouth while sailing past it. Unfortunately it moved before I could tempt her ashore.
Mudisox
Well-known member
I think that my original post was answered for me. The ships will have minimum, seagoing crew, to maintain and keep working the systems as well as keeping the deck staff practised and up to date. Even at anchor in a sheltered Bay we would keep anchor watch.
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
I think you're maybe a little pessimistic. Yes, enough of the world's population needs to be vaccinated, but that "enough" is the people who take cruises and they are (a) overwhelmingly well-off older Westerners who are (b) going to be the first and most vaccinated group. So on the whole I think cruising will probably be back in scale by the summer, perhaps initially no-landing, then to ports in better off countries only and eventually to poorer destinations.
Capt Popeye
Well-known member
Yea well about half the persons on a Cruise Liner are staff, believe me they are not well-off older persons, Captain excepted; those other Staff are in great contact all through a Cruise with the (us) passengers, from preparing /delivering Room Service, to Breakfast Service then Lunch then Afternoon Tea, to Dinner service; all the while serving in the various Bars, Shops, eateries ; cleaning all the time every Lift, Walkway, Cloakroom, gaming table, hairdressers, etc etc; some of these Staff come and go during any Cruise to there will be a risk of a Virus getting 'on board' during a Cruise; mind you ther Companies just might accept tht as a risk and contain all Crew and Passengers for each Cruise !
Guess that its confidence of us passengers that will bring about the return of Cruising as a viable and safe way to travel
As to No Landing whats the point in a Cruise if one cannot disembark along the route ?
Kukri
Well-known member
I think that is right. Having been on the fringes of the business I was constantly astonished by how knowledgeable and how confident- and, down the decades, how consistently right - the titans of the cruise business all are. I think they will very soon persuade some small “destinations” that going “Covid19-free” is going to be hugely in their interest.
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
Good point, and I assume that they will be vaccinated too. In fact, cruises are probably going to be the safest way of seeing furrin' parts for a while, because no other travel mode can exclude the untested and unvaccinated so effectively.
If going to places was the point, flying would be cheaper and easier. The industry may have to, for a while, emphasize activities on board ship over activities ashore.
Neeves
Well-known member
I'm impressed with the confidence shown of the Cruise Industry to, suddenly, manage health issues.
The number of passengers incapacitated and cruises aborted early due to Nova virus ? would indicate that the cruise industry has a long way to go and that if the Ruby Princess was an indication of state of the art practices then no-one with any intelligence will touch a cruise ship with a barge poll. There have not, effectively, been cruises since the Ruby - all these sophisticated practices romantically suggest - have not yet been tested. I don't recall many 5,000 passenger cruise ships sailing recently.
Hopefully they will have learnt lesson but how they are going to impart that sudden grasp of knowledge (like why on the Diamond Princess where everyone was secured in their cabin did Covid spread?). I suspect cheap fares initially will be a major incentive.
Vaccination is going to be a larger issue than suggested, most of the lower paid crew come from countries that are unable to access any vaccine, at all. Consequently the Cruise industry will need to arrange vaccination of their crew, not impossible but not easy. The vaccine may protect the individual but the individual may still be a carrier, as might passengers. We don't know yet for how long the vaccine is effective. The current news on vaccines is that there is simply not enough to meet immediate demand. To suggest everyone is going to be vaccinated by the summer - seems a romantic enough idea, it might install hope and encouragement - but it seems aeons from reality. The other idea what covid will simply go away in the summer - its summer in the Southern Hemisphere there are lots of countries in S America where Covid is certainly NOT going away. And go away - its mutating into a more virulent form. Maybe you don't have newspapers any more
Its a pleasure to see such optimism.
Maybe I'm too pessimistic - but in Oz where we have no, current covid, we are still wearing face masks and still social distancing. Will that change with a vaccine - that's the hope, but so far its only hope.
Stay safe, take care
Jonathan
The number of passengers incapacitated and cruises aborted early due to Nova virus ? would indicate that the cruise industry has a long way to go and that if the Ruby Princess was an indication of state of the art practices then no-one with any intelligence will touch a cruise ship with a barge poll. There have not, effectively, been cruises since the Ruby - all these sophisticated practices romantically suggest - have not yet been tested. I don't recall many 5,000 passenger cruise ships sailing recently.
Hopefully they will have learnt lesson but how they are going to impart that sudden grasp of knowledge (like why on the Diamond Princess where everyone was secured in their cabin did Covid spread?). I suspect cheap fares initially will be a major incentive.
Vaccination is going to be a larger issue than suggested, most of the lower paid crew come from countries that are unable to access any vaccine, at all. Consequently the Cruise industry will need to arrange vaccination of their crew, not impossible but not easy. The vaccine may protect the individual but the individual may still be a carrier, as might passengers. We don't know yet for how long the vaccine is effective. The current news on vaccines is that there is simply not enough to meet immediate demand. To suggest everyone is going to be vaccinated by the summer - seems a romantic enough idea, it might install hope and encouragement - but it seems aeons from reality. The other idea what covid will simply go away in the summer - its summer in the Southern Hemisphere there are lots of countries in S America where Covid is certainly NOT going away. And go away - its mutating into a more virulent form. Maybe you don't have newspapers any more
Its a pleasure to see such optimism.
Maybe I'm too pessimistic - but in Oz where we have no, current covid, we are still wearing face masks and still social distancing. Will that change with a vaccine - that's the hope, but so far its only hope.
Stay safe, take care
Jonathan
Kukri
Well-known member
So, you don’t like cruise ships, Jonathan.?
Of course the cruise lines will vaccinate and test their own crews and hotel staff. And give them a little credit - they have years of experience with infectious diseases. Nobody knew much about Covid19 a year ago.
They can’t afford to get it wrong, so they won’t.
Of course the cruise lines will vaccinate and test their own crews and hotel staff. And give them a little credit - they have years of experience with infectious diseases. Nobody knew much about Covid19 a year ago.
They can’t afford to get it wrong, so they won’t.
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Neeves
Well-known member
I'm a fan of cruise ships and the companies that run them
But being a fan does not mean you cannot be critical
Suggesting everything is fine and dandy is a sure route to complacency and another magic discharge pipe. You are correct - no-one knew of Covid 19 but we sure did know about infectious diseases and holding a party where the 'audience' blows up balloons by mouth knocks them about then bursts them is not part of normal disease protocol prevention. And Ruby Princess knew all about the dire consequences of getting it wrong as Diamond Princess was very evident. They did get it wrong
You suggest the Cruise industry is perfect
Cruise Line Ordered to Pay $40 Million for Illegal Dumping of Oil Contaminated Waste and Falsifying Records
In order for this practice to exist a number of senior people must have known, Chief Engineer, Captain, whoever is responsible on shore etc. Doing it is one thing, falsifying accounts another, having crew members who don't feel the need to whistle blow - it all smells a bit.
I'm still a fan of cruise ships but there are examples of cutting corners which also seemed to occur with the Ruby Princess Covid outbreak. Cutting corners occurs everywhere the Cruise industry is not specially, bad, or good. But suggesting that the cruise industry cannot get it wrong is demonstrably incorrect. They push their luck.
Jonathan
But being a fan does not mean you cannot be critical
Suggesting everything is fine and dandy is a sure route to complacency and another magic discharge pipe. You are correct - no-one knew of Covid 19 but we sure did know about infectious diseases and holding a party where the 'audience' blows up balloons by mouth knocks them about then bursts them is not part of normal disease protocol prevention. And Ruby Princess knew all about the dire consequences of getting it wrong as Diamond Princess was very evident. They did get it wrong
You suggest the Cruise industry is perfect
Cruise Line Ordered to Pay $40 Million for Illegal Dumping of Oil Contaminated Waste and Falsifying Records
In order for this practice to exist a number of senior people must have known, Chief Engineer, Captain, whoever is responsible on shore etc. Doing it is one thing, falsifying accounts another, having crew members who don't feel the need to whistle blow - it all smells a bit.
I'm still a fan of cruise ships but there are examples of cutting corners which also seemed to occur with the Ruby Princess Covid outbreak. Cutting corners occurs everywhere the Cruise industry is not specially, bad, or good. But suggesting that the cruise industry cannot get it wrong is demonstrably incorrect. They push their luck.
Jonathan
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Capt Popeye
Well-known member
Well having been a regular Cruise Ship traveller for over 15 years now I have gained first hand experience of the Business plus spoken and read up on lotsa comments about this business.
Its most notable that the Big Cruise Companies ahve been going along the line build bigger and bigger and so more profitable for many years now; with the consequense that there are far less destinations that them Liners can Dock at /in ; recall on a Canary cruise we were rescheduled en route due to another Liner already being the Islands Terminal so here was not enough room for our ship to dock; this is not unusuall these days;
Read that on a Cross Atlantic cruise to the Islands where stopping to disembark at some was scheduled the going ashore was abandoned due to both Liner size and that the weather was too bad for launching the Tenders to ferry Passengers ashore; so the Passengers cruise went largly unsatisfied with no recourse
Might add, that when I looked it up the Liners conditions, it does not include actually making the scheduled Stop overs at all, due of course to conditions of weather plus other influences; yep having experienced a failed stop over once I soon realised that the Ship Accountants were rejoicing in the extra income from the On Board facilities, shops, beauty salons , gambling, fine dining, gifts, etc etc so guess that Cruise Liners are really big businesses with quite a few Income Streams to satisfy plus they control you once you have boarded them
From my experience its far better to book on a smaller Ship as they give better Passenger/Liner satisfaction- but them Liners owners are going tother way and Bigger and Bigger and Bigger; so where next ?
Its most notable that the Big Cruise Companies ahve been going along the line build bigger and bigger and so more profitable for many years now; with the consequense that there are far less destinations that them Liners can Dock at /in ; recall on a Canary cruise we were rescheduled en route due to another Liner already being the Islands Terminal so here was not enough room for our ship to dock; this is not unusuall these days;
Read that on a Cross Atlantic cruise to the Islands where stopping to disembark at some was scheduled the going ashore was abandoned due to both Liner size and that the weather was too bad for launching the Tenders to ferry Passengers ashore; so the Passengers cruise went largly unsatisfied with no recourse
Might add, that when I looked it up the Liners conditions, it does not include actually making the scheduled Stop overs at all, due of course to conditions of weather plus other influences; yep having experienced a failed stop over once I soon realised that the Ship Accountants were rejoicing in the extra income from the On Board facilities, shops, beauty salons , gambling, fine dining, gifts, etc etc so guess that Cruise Liners are really big businesses with quite a few Income Streams to satisfy plus they control you once you have boarded them
From my experience its far better to book on a smaller Ship as they give better Passenger/Liner satisfaction- but them Liners owners are going tother way and Bigger and Bigger and Bigger; so where next ?
Tomaret
Active member
Where next - Galapagos cruise ships tend to be small - 20-120 passengers, as do some of the Antarctic ”expedition” ships and they even through in the opportunity for a bit of sea swimming If you are up for it.
Kukri
Well-known member
May I suggest the Hurtigruten? Travel by sea up the Norwegian coast, by small modern ships, making regular stops on the way?
Daedelus
Well-known member
Saga (one of the cruise companies anyway) say cruise bookings are rising now with confidence in the vaccines.
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
That has long been my promised treat to myself for retirement, not least because it's how my parents spent their honeymoon in 1961.
doug748
Well-known member
It recalls a favourite piece from HW Tilman, as he gathered together a fresh crew:
" Our number was now four and two others remained to be interviewed. John Lyons and J G Osbourne. Judging by their letters, neither had any qualifications whatsoever, apart from great eagerness to go. Osborne had sailed a canoe and Lyons had crossed the Atlantic fifty-one times in the Queen Mary, Playing the double base in the ship's orchestra............"
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