onesea
Well-known member
What about:
Or Billy Joe Ramey or Ray J Hope...
There are much, much worse out there...
Cruise liner aground in Oban Bay
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What about:
Or Billy Joe Ramey or Ray J Hope...
There are much, much worse out there...
PeterMcK
New member
There may be trickier areas but I can't say it's something to be astounded by. (Grounding HMS Astute on Skye - now THAT was astounding.) I've watched this happen in classic slow motion to a couple of large yachts (both foreign), both eventually ending up on their sides on the Corran Ledge, I don't doubt there have been many more, and, as another poster has pointed out, even Calmac ferries manage to mess up in Oban Bay (and elsewhere too, I would add).
It looks very simple on the chart. The reality is different. Visibility of the bay is completely obscured by Kerrera island until, literally, the last minute, when you're about to make a sharp turn into the narrow channel at Dunollie. There are frequent movements of ferries, fishing boats and others - you can't see these until that last minute by which time you're committed, and for bigger vessels no room to turn and not a good place to stop. At the same time, you have to quickly identify the three cardinals, not forgetting you've a seaplane area to pass through. Most deceptive of all though, is that the Corran Ledge has a shallow slope and covers all the way from the sea wall out to the cardinal and when it's covered the mark just looks somehow out of position, too far from the shore. And the next cardinal, remember, IS in the middle of the bay and has to be taken on the other side. Assuming this ship had reduced speed to 5 or 6 knots, the time from completing her turn into the entrance channel until her point-of-no-return decision, beyond which grounding was inevitable, would be measured in seconds, maximum about 20 to 30, I'd say.
It was a poor piece of pilotage but given that it happens, and given the level of traffic in this channel, including numerous cruise ships whose crews are probably unfamiliar with the area, you have to ask whether it whether a better buoyage arrangement couldn't be devised. Or whether these ships should be required to carry harbour pilots when operating in these water.
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NormanS
Well-known member
One would hope that the "navigator" on any stranger vessel approaching Oban, or any other harbour, might have a wee look at the chart first, before entering. That way, they wouldn't get any nasty surprises. The buoyage is perfectly adequate if you do your homework.
PeterMcK
New member
1) Do you think they don't?
2) Running aground most likely equals a nasty surprise.
3) Proof of the pudding ... Or put it another way, how often do you have to repeat an experiment in order to prove a theory?
If you really do your homework, you don't need any buoyage at all. They're there supposedly as aids. On this occasion and others, the evidence is incontrovertible; the Corran Ledge cardinal was yet again either missed, or ignored or, I think most likely, mistaken for the Sgeir Rathaid north cardinal. Aid, it did not.
All will become clear when the MAIB reports.
onesea
Well-known member
That's all any of it is though and aid Buoys, GPS, AIS, Radar, Charts, Compass, Echo Sounder, Log, sextant, tide tables you could keep going...
NONE of them are to be relied upon 100% good navigation is about cross checking the aids you do have to keep the vessel safe to the best available information.
You try and avoid the situation where you are relying 100% on any one of these aids.
ukmctc
New member
Ah, hind sight is always 20/20
There are few people and I mean few who have not ran aground, those who have not, have not left the marina yet.....
There are few people and I mean few who have not ran aground, those who have not, have not left the marina yet.....
NormanS
Well-known member
1) Well it's painfully obvious that they hadn't looked at the chart, or if they had, they didn't understand it.
2) That is exactly my point.
3) Sorry, but I've no idea what you mean.
A1Sailor
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Does the MAIB investigate simple groundings where no loss of life is involved?
puddock
New member
Sorry, I understood "clipped" to mean something along the lines of 'to strike in passing' ... and I do know you have a saily boat (Westerly Storm, same as I have?) and understand the implications of getting off a lee shore. My comment was not a slight on your seamanship but meant as a bit of light-hearted leg pulling.
For the record, I have never run aground, though I have scraped the bottom once (sand). I suppose that is running aground with luck on my side ....
Note: I've done it now ! Next post from me will be "Help - I'm high and dry at high tide and it's Springs ..."
PeterMcK
New member
1) Beyond belief.
2) Not your point at all, which was if they had looked at and understood the chart there could be no nasty surprise. I'll bet they did, in detail, and this didn't prevent them from being given an almighty shock, which negates your point.
3) Vessels not infrequently run onto the Corran Ledge when entering from the north. Theory: something's not working and this could be because of, or exacerbated by, confusion or disorientation re buoyage with very little time or room available to rectify an error; boats continue to hit it which proves that the situation continues to be less than ideal.
You maintain it's very much simpler - that it happens because people don't refer to their charts .....
Re another poster's question in relation to the MAIB, it's mandatory that the master or owner of any vessel running aground report the incident to the MAIB within 24 hours. There's a hefty fine if you don't. Privately owned leisure vessels are exempt if there have been no injuries and the vessel is not lost as a consequence. Most likely there will be a preliminary examination, the findings of which will be published online. I suspect that a full-on investigation will not be warranted. The grounding of the ferry Isle of Arran, of similar size to the Serenissima, which took a different cardinal on the wrong side a few hundred yards away in the middle of Oban Bay was the subject of one such report quite recently:-
http://www.maib.gov.uk/publications...eliminary_examinations_2009/isle_of_arran.cfm
KREW2
Well-known member
Well it should have been,........... it was me being careless in my local harbour, and your comment, quite rightly hit a nerve.
Speed went from 6 knts down to 3, a few more bumps and we were only making leeway.
At least I didn't do any damage, unlike the pilot on the Marco Polo, and didn't have 800 passengers on board to placate.
A1Sailor
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There is some footage and comment courtesy of the local newspaper here:
They apparently grounded after avoiding the Isle of Mull.
They apparently grounded after avoiding the Isle of Mull.
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NormanS
Well-known member
I am touched by your absolute faith that whoever was in charge of the pilotage of the ship had studied the chart, but the evidence suggests otherwise.
What is your suggestion to the "not infrequent" (your terms) running aground of vessels on the Corran Ledge? Move the Ledge?
prr
New member
My feelings are that these things happen because of bad training of Bridge & Engine room teams in a mechanical failure. Management systems only require that the boxes are ticked that exercises have been carried out correctly.
I'm sure these people would know what side of a bouy to pass.
I'm sure these people would know what side of a bouy to pass.
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wadget
New member
Loss of life does not immediately mean a full MAIB investigation, an MAIB investigation will be carried out where it is expected that some usefull lessons will be learnt for the company/crew in question and/or the industry as a whole.
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A1Sailor
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Your feelings may not fit with what happened, though. The description in the video in post 52 makes no mention of engine or mechanical failure.
(EDIT: Thanks to those who have answered my query about the incident being reportable to MAIB)
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Seatrout
New member
There is some footage and comment courtesy of the local newspaper here:
They apparently grounded after avoiding the Isle of Mull.
IIRC, the Isle of Mull Ferry and all other Cal Mac ferries using Oban Bay make a general safety call on Ch16 to all craft in the Bay announcing their impending embarkation or arrival in the bay.
On the matter of the grounding-confessional theme introduced, I confess to grounding into mud entering the nearby Dunstaffnage Marina. BEWARE when taking the route to the inner pontoons to the port side at low tide; a matter of 10 feet out from the 90 degree turn to the inners, the depth is less than 1.3m which is what I draw.
A1Sailor
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I did, of course, mean they avoided the CalMac Ferry "Isle of Mull" - for those who didn't watch/listen to the Oban Times clip!!!
NormanS
Well-known member
If, as has been suggested, the ship was surprised by, and diverted away from the Isle of Mull (ferry), which was presumably coming out, while the ship was entering, it is somewhat surprising that she went aground on the port side of the channel.
NorthUp
Active member
There is some footage and comment courtesy of the local newspaper here:
They apparently grounded after avoiding the Isle of Mull.
MV Isle of Mull appeared to be well clear of the entrance before the cruise ship even entered the narrows-
http://www.aisliverpool.org.uk/historymap.php?map=ObanBay&hh=18&mm=10&date=20130520
toggle the timeline..