Crossing TSS Saronic Gulf

[Irish Rover]

I have zero experience of using Traffic Separation Schemes and I need help please. Hopefully in a couple of weeks I'll be passing through the Saronic Gulf heading from the Corinth Canal to Kea. I'll be passing the TSS between Glifadha and Aigina Island. I plotted this on Navionics using automic routing and it has me crossing the TSS - screenshot below. That's obviously the shortest route but I would've thought I should stay in the east flow lane until I clear the TSS.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Don't the TSS rules say that you should cross the traffic lanes as nearly at right angles as possible?

 

[VicS]

I have zero experience of using Traffic Separation Schemes and I need help please. Hopefully in a couple of weeks I'll be passing through the Saronic Gulf heading from the Corinth Canal to Kea. I'll be passing the TSS between Glifadha and Aigina Island. I plotted this on Navionics using automic routing and it has me crossing the TSS - screenshot below. That's obviously the shortest route but I would've thought I should stay in the east flow lane until I clear the TSS.
View attachment 69765

You must cross a TSS at right angles ( in tidal water on a heading at right angles) to the traffic flow.

Even if you stay outside the scheme and cross beyond the end of it you would be welll advised to cross the extended traffic lanes at right angles as that gets you across from one side to the other as quickly as possible.

 

[Irish Rover]

OK thanks but I'm still confused. Apart from a wish to steer the shortest course there are plenty of options open to me to avoid crossing the TSS -
- I can stay completely North or South of the TSS until I've passed to the East of it and then set my course for Kea, or
- I can enter the TSS at the start heading East and stay in until the end.
Looking at the Colregs any of these 3 options would appear to be more correct than crossing the TSS even at a right angle. So why is Navionics apparently advising me to do the wrong thing.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

OK thanks but I'm still confused. Apart from a wish to steer the shortest course there are plenty of options open to me to avoid crossing the TSS -
- I can stay completely North or South of the TSS until I've passed to the East of it and then set my course for Kea, or
- I can enter the TSS at the start heading East and stay in until the end.
Looking at the Colregs any of these 3 options would appear to be more correct than crossing the TSS even at a right angle. So why is Navionics apparently advising me to do the wrong thing.

I very much doubt that the Navionics software understands either ColRegs or TSSs!

 

[Euphonyx]

Follow VicS's advice. TSS is for ships not pleasure craft. Unless you are a ship stay out of the TSS except if you have to cross it. If you are crossing it keep your heading at 90 degrees to the flow of traffic (heading not COG)

 

[Irish Rover]

I very much doubt that the Navionics software understands either ColRegs or TSSs!

I hear you. I just e mailed them to ask if their automatic course planning takes account of Colregs. I'll post the answer when I get one.

 

[vyv_cox]

We have crossed this TSS several times. It can be quite busy in both directions. The others are correct, you should cross at right angles, which we have always done. I have no idea how keen the Greek coastguard may be, or how good their radar, but if you did what the plotter tells you crossing the Dover Strait you would be shouted at over VHF and possibly fined.

More generally, we have almost been run down twice in Greek waters, only action by ourselves preventing collision. In each case we were the stand-on vessel. Ships travel in all directions between islands in the Aegean and it is impossible to know with certainty where they are going. For this reason we bought an AIS receiver, which has proved to be very useful.

 

[easton]

You must cross a TSS at right angles ( in tidal water on a heading at right angles) to the traffic flow.

Even if you stay outside the scheme and cross beyond the end of it you would be well advised to cross the extended traffic lanes at right angles as that gets you across from one side to the other as quickly as possible.

Cross it at a right angle. 90deg. If you want to avoid it, as Vic says, many would elect to still go across at a right angle at either end. It minimises time in the "huge ship coming to run me over" zone. But you're not really avoiding the traffic by sneaking across at either end, in fact it may be worse as ships join/exit the TSS from different directions (A vessel navigating in areas near the terminations of traffic separation schemes shall do so with particular
caution.).

Why is Navionics advising you to do the wrong thing? Maybe it isn't clever enough to recognise TSS and route you around/correctly through it. (The same way sat nav recommends some people to drive through fords in the rainy season, drive along railway lines or over cliffs...). I've never used it; genuine question, how good a substitute is it for shaping your own course?

It almost goes without saying to keep a really good lookout.

Andrew
(sorry, loads of posts already while I was tying this - interested in Navionics response to your query)

 

[Daverw]

Can you just add manually two waypoints either side and then Navionics will adjust the route. I would expect to do this with any auto planned route, it’s not just the TSS that may need to be checked.

 

[Uricanejack]

I have zero experience of using Traffic Separation Schemes and I need help please. Hopefully in a couple of weeks I'll be passing through the Saronic Gulf heading from the Corinth Canal to Kea. I'll be passing the TSS between Glifadha and Aigina Island. I plotted this on Navionics using automic routing and it has me crossing the TSS - screenshot below. That's obviously the shortest route but I would've thought I should stay in the east flow lane until I clear the TSS.
View attachment 69765

My first comment. Don't over think it.

A few or even several decades since I was I Greek waters, so I cant say I am familiar with the area. The International Code signal YG ( You Greek) Means you appear to be contravening the traffic separation scheme. Actually despite the stereo type. while difficult buggers most Greeks are actually quite good seamen and have been for generations. The stories of barking dogs are just stories.

Yea the course is at 45 degree to traffic flow so precisely the wrong course according to rule 10. The other vessels might be in doubt if you are joining or crossing.
Quite an important consideration if you are on a. Ship. which may be joining or crossing a traffic lane.

If how ever you are on a sailing vessel or a vessel of less than 20 m. The important part of rule 10 is the requirement to not impede. which roughly translates to "don't get in the way".

Use common sense. How much traffic is there on the day when you are there. If its quiet take the shortest route if its busy cross as near as practicable to right angles. It doesn't have to be exactly 90 degrees. Closers to 90 than 45. Busy is a relative term. It aint Dover.

Common sense. You are a pleasure yacht. Only an very inexperienced ships officer would be wondering if you were joining a traffic lane in a sailboat.

So don't get in the way. Keep a good look out. Judge the amount of commercial traffic. If a ship looks like it might be steady. Take early action and avoid crossing ahead. Personally I would turn away from the ships direction of travel or slow down by letting sails out till they luff until the ship is passed and cross behind. JIK it decides to alter for you.

The worst thing to do is a last minute tack or turn towards a ship. Particularly since it might still give way. If you stand on it probably will give way. If you get really worried its not giving way. Turn away from it.

Relax and enjoy the day.

 

[macd]

Hi Rover. As suggested, Navionics "knows" the TSS is there (because its on the chart) but the software running it won't have a clue what that implies. In the same way many nav systems will happily route you onto a rock or even over a large body of land if such is between you and your selected waypoint. It is not smart, and even somewhat less smart than a car GPS navigator, which will at least (usually) advise against going the wrong way in a one-way street. All the smartness available is yours.

As Uricanejack suggests, relax and use your loaf.

 

[Irish Rover]

I sent the e mail to Navionics 5 days ago - I got an instant auto acknowledgement and nothing more until today despite a couple of reminders. I think I only got an answer because I've been prodding them on Twitter. Anyway this was my mail
Hi,
Can you help me please. If I set an automatic course does the course you
plot for me take account of Colregs for instance in relation to traversing
or crossing a TSS.
Best regards
and this was their reply received a short while ago
Dear IR,
Thank you for contacting Navionics.
Dock-to-dock Autorouting takes COLREGS and TSS into account to calculate the route accurately and safely. It quickly creates detailed routes even through narrow waterways and channels, based on chart data and navigation aids. POI nearby the destination like the harbor master, marinas and moorings, fuel stations, restaurants and bars, shops, taxis, launch services and more, now appear automatically within the Autorouting menu.
For best results, make sure that you check your draft setting and start/end point placement. Draft is automatically placed at the default setting of 33ft (about 10mt) when you purchase Autorouting. Go to Menu > Settings > Boat Settings and set properly your draft. Dock-to-dock Autorouting is for general planning and reference only – it does NOT replace safe navigation practices and should never be your only reference source.
Attached are some additional documents for instruction and reference.
Please be advised that our office hours are 9:30am-4:30pm (offices in USA are EST, and office in Italy CET). As our office is not open on weekends, we typically experience a high volume of emails on Monday and answer all inquiries as quickly and efficiently as possible, in the order they are received.
For additional support, access Navionics online Help or Chat Now with a live agent.
Best regards,
Kerri Doze
Navionics Customer Service

I've replied as follows
Thank you for your e mail in response to my query of 5 days ago dated 15 March. I had assumed your auto routing would take account of Colregs and TSS but when i used auto routing to plot a course through the Saronic from Corinth to the Island of Kea it has me crossing the TS line at an angle of about 45 degrees whereas Colregs require that " A vessel shall, so far as practicable, avoid crossing traffic lanes but if obliged to do so shall cross on a heading as nearly as practicable at right angles to the general direction of traffic flow". I would be obliged if you could explain this apparent anomaly. Screen shot attached.
Best regards
I'll post their reply if and when I receive it

 

[Irish Rover]

I got an almost instant response and I've provided a copy of my route
Thank you for the screenshot. This is certainly something that we will investigate further. If you could, please provide your start and end coordinates for testing purposes on our side. This way we can determine the best resolution. Thank you for your kind cooperation.

Regards,
Kerri Doze
Navionics Customer Service

 

[RichardS]

I got an almost instant response and I've provided a copy of my route
Thank you for the screenshot. This is certainly something that we will investigate further. If you could, please provide your start and end coordinates for testing purposes on our side. This way we can determine the best resolution. Thank you for your kind cooperation.

Regards,
Kerri Doze
Navionics Customer Service

The issue that Navionics are really going to struggle with is whether the "right angle" rules applies to the lanes and the separation zone or just the lanes. It will be interesting to see what they come up with as ColRegs will not provide them with the answer.

This is one of the two clear "ColRegs" deficiencies raised in this forum over the years. This was my actual course:

and this was the thread which resulted.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...r-in-PBO-about-TSSs-reminds-me-of-my-question

Richard

 

[cmedsailor]

I have zero experience of using Traffic Separation Schemes and I need help please. Hopefully in a couple of weeks I'll be passing through the Saronic Gulf heading from the Corinth Canal to Kea. I'll be passing the TSS between Glifadha and Aigina Island. I plotted this on Navionics using automic routing and it has me crossing the TSS - screenshot below. That's obviously the shortest route but I would've thought I should stay in the east flow lane until I clear the TSS.
View attachment 69765

You are heading from Corinth canal to Kea, so my advice purely based on my own experience (I did that crossing 3 times) is to cross at right angle the TSS at the first opportunity and keep sailing on the north side of it (above the TSS). Don't keep sailing towards the east, south (below) of it and then head towards Kea after you clear it. By crossing early, above the TSS, you are closer to land and away from the traffic entering the TSS that can sometimes get confusing of the way the ships are diverting their route to get into that corridor.

 

[Irish Rover]

You are heading from Corinth canal to Kea, so my advice purely based on my own experience (I did that crossing 3 times) is to cross at right angle the TSS at the first opportunity and keep sailing on the north side of it (above the TSS). Don't keep sailing towards the east, south (below) of it and then head towards Kea after you clear it. By crossing early, above the TSS, you are closer to land and away from the traffic entering the TSS that can sometimes get confusing of the way the ships are diverting their route to get into that corridor.

Thanks. I appreciate the advice. I assume it's straightforward after that if the weather is OK. I hope to be in Vourkari on 06/04 which is Good Friday but I'm assuming getting a berth won't be a problem this early in the year.

 

[ghostlymoron]

The shipping traffic in the area is probably light at the moment as the Canal is closed due to a rock fall.
My advice is to use the normal instructions and cross on a right angle heading, keep your eyes peeled. Don't rely on automated routing, it's YOUR responsibility.

 

[Irish Rover]

The shipping traffic in the area is probably light at the moment as the Canal is closed due to a rock fall.
My advice is to use the normal instructions and cross on a right angle heading, keep your eyes peeled. Don't rely on automated routing, it's YOUR responsibility.

If the Canal is still closed it won't be an issue for me anyway and I'll be taking the southern route to get to the Aegean. In any event I was assuming, maybe wrongly so, that most of the traffic I'd be encountering wouldn't be using the Canal and would be heading in/out of Piraeus and the other ports around Athens.

 

[vyv_cox]

If the Canal is still closed it won't be an issue for me anyway and I'll be taking the southern route to get to the Aegean. In any event I was assuming, maybe wrongly so, that most of the traffic I'd be encountering wouldn't be using the Canal and would be heading in/out of Piraeus and the other ports around Athens.

Yes, I think you are correct. The vast majority of ships we see anchored or berthed at Piraeas are too big for the canal. Many tankers and container ships, plus all the traffic that normally operates between Piraeas and the Aegean islands.