Crossing Separation Zones in Small Yacht

[alexrunic]

I have some simple rules, keep out the way of any other shipping, who cares if the ship is supposed to give way or not. In TSS your are always the give way vessel any way. Go behind if your in any doubt .

Make any changes in course as early as possible in a bold manner, so the ship is in no confusion of your intentions. Don't be altering 5 or 10 deg at a time

If at night if at all possible show a different aspect of you nav lights to ensure your change in course has been seen and understood.

Unless there is a good wind blowing in a decent direction, have the engine at least ticking over, ready for action if required.

 

[Lucky Duck]

Did you not get suitable replies when you wrote on a thread, (message 9) on 15 June last year:

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240120

While asking questions if unsure is to be encouraged, I'm rather concerned that he signed himself as a 'Yachtmaster Offshore' in the other thread

 

[Seven Spades]

What is the correct procedure if you have head winds and no engine? Is it a case of turning around until the wind changes, it might be days?

 

[Pye_End]

I have some simple rules, keep out the way of any other shipping, who cares if the ship is supposed to give way or not.

Perfectly understable, and a rule that probably the majority of yachties also follow.

In TSS your are always the give way vessel any way.

This is incorrect. See post 19.

 

[Seajet]

What is the correct procedure if you have head winds and no engine? Is it a case of turning around until the wind changes, it might be days?

As long as you can keep a decent speed up, you should be fine.

I always aim behind ships and make it obvious I'm doing so, I have formed the idea they are unlikely to alter course - even if there's someone on the bridge to see you ! - so think discretion is certainly the better part of valour on this one; remember the poor blokes on the 'Ouzo'.

If the wind is too light to make reasonably swift progress - say 4 knots - I'd probably think about returning and trying another day.

Considering the tides and rocks on the French side of the Channel, I'd think an engine almost essential; if fitted with a charging coil ( talking of outboards here ) it will keep the GPS, VHF & lights via the battery going too.

 

[AndrewB]

I have some simple rules, keep out the way of any other shipping, who cares if the ship is supposed to give way or not. In TSS your are always the give way vessel any way. Go behind if your in any doubt .

Nonsense. You cannot keep totally out of the way of shipping when crossing the Dover Strait. Yachts that dither or give way and change direction when they are not expected to do so, are very likely to cause maximum confusion to ships, and so certain to break rule 10(j) by impeding their safe passage.

If the Collision Regulations meant that small boats and yachts are always the give-way vessel when crossing a TSS, then they would say so. The fact is, that is not what they say, though it would be far simpler for us all if they did.

 

[Seajet]

Nonsense. You cannot keep totally out of the way of shipping when crossing the Dover Strait. Yachts that dither or give way and change direction when they are not expected to do so, are very likely to cause maximum confusion to ships, and so certain to break rule 10(j) by impeding their safe passage.

If the Collision Regulations meant that small boats and yachts are always the give-way vessel when crossing a TSS, then they would say so. The fact is, that is not what they say, though it would be far simpler for us all if they did.

AndrewB,

you could put it more politely...

It's common sense to go behind ships - and make it obvious one is doing so - unless VERY confident of passing ahead, including having such things as the wind dropping or engine failing in mind !

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Not True. A vessel under 20m in length or any sailing vessel must not impede the passage of a vessel using the TSS. "Impede the Passage" is defined in Rule 8. Simply - you must not allow your vessel to get into a position where a risk of collision exists. You must keep your wits about you, think ahead, and take early action so that no risk of collision exists. Once there is a risk of collision, then the normal Colregs apply - and if that makes you the stand-on vessel, then you will have impeded the passage of the other vessel using the TSS.

You are wrong - at least as far as I understand your reply. Rule 10 first of all says " This rule applies to traffic separation schemes adopted by the organisation and does not relieve any vessel of her obligation under any other Rule" which means that rule 10 does not take precedence over other rules. It goes on to say " A vessel of less than 20m in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the safe passage of a power-driven vessel following a traffic lane.".

Rule 8 says " A vessel, the passage of which is not to be impeded remains fully obliged to comply with the Rules of this part when the two vessels are approaching one another so as to involve risk of collision." So the big ship which has to give way on the port / starboard rule or steam sail rule still has to give way in a seperation scheme. The difference is you are required not to impede that ship ie make life difficult for him. Quite what that constitutes is open to debate but one thing is certain, a TSS does not alter the rights of way

That very question was one I was asked by the examiner when I did my YM practical

 

[PeterR]

I used to cross the channel to Belgium and France regularly in my Sonata which would do about 4.5 knots under engine and 5.5 to 6 knots under sail off the wind which is about the performance I imagine you would have. Shipping never caused me any more of a problem than it has in a bigger boat. However, the scenario that always worried me was a moderate to strong wind dead on the nose.

An outboard, which I assume is what you have, will not provide any drive at sea in those conditions. Although the boat would sail well enough you would end up by crossing the lanes at about 30 to 35 degrees. You could reduce the angle of the track by choosing the tack that let the tide push you up against the wind but you would still be pointing at a distinct angle to shipping. The coastguards probably would not notice because the track on their radar would not be far off a right angle but your VMG would not be great. Fortunately, I never had to do this and I would try and avoid getting into a situation where you had to.

 

[bedouin]

I have some simple rules, keep out the way of any other shipping, who cares if the ship is supposed to give way or not. In TSS your are always the give way vessel any way. Go behind if your in any doubt .

Dangerous nonsense. If that is what the rules meant why don't they say that.

The requirement not to impede is explicitly defined in the rules, which also makes it clear that normal give way / stand on rules apply.

 

[Pye_End]

What is the correct procedure if you have head winds and no engine? Is it a case of turning around until the wind changes, it might be days?

If you are concerned then a quick call to Dover coastguard, explaining where you are and that you are making best course to windward. This will then be on record, and if they want to contact you by VHF again then it is then easy for them to do so.

 

[AndrewB]

If you are concerned then a quick call to Dover coastguard, explaining where you are and that you are making best course to windward. This will then be on record, and if they want to contact you by VHF again then it is then easy for them to do so.

From my past conversations with them, although Dover CG would accept a sailing vessel crossing "as nearly as practical" at right angles to the traffic flow rather than exactly so, these days they are likely to go ape at the thought of an engineless yacht in the Dover Strait TSS. Seven Spades would probably be told, politely, that if he has to cross it should be well away from this area.

 

[chinita]

All this bluster about 'nonsense', 'dangerous nonsense' and 'rules' is hilarious.

I am with those who say 'just keep out of the bloody way'.

I know I do, and I am still here to tell the tales.

 

[sailorman]

From my past conversations with them, although Dover CG would accept a sailing vessel crossing "as nearly as practical" at right angles to the traffic flow rather than exactly so, these days they are likely to go ape at the thought of an engineless yacht in the Dover Strait TSS. Seven Spades would probably be told, politely, that if he has to cross it should be well away from this area.

Don't try swimming over then.

 

[alexrunic]

Dangerous nonsense. If that is what the rules meant why don't they say that.

The requirement not to impede is explicitly defined in the rules, which also makes it clear that normal give way / stand on rules apply.

Hey its worked for me for the last 10 years. i don't dither, i make sure if there is any doubt i go behind any other vessel in good time. Its common sense surely?? I regularly cross the TSS off the Humber and the ones off the continental coast. I appreciate they are not as busy as the Dover Straight. But i would still use the same common sense.

How do you know if the ship has even seen you, never mind if it will change course just because according to the rules it should.

Ok some times they do in good time, then you know you will be ok, otherwise sail defensively.

How can this be dangerous??

 

[Pye_End]

How do you know if the ship has even seen you, never mind if it will change course just because according to the rules it should.

One of the benefits of AIS is seeing the behaviour of ships at a greater distance.

 

[alexrunic]

One of the benefits of AIS is seeing the behaviour of ships at a greater distance.

i agree, but we are not discussing the benefits of AIS.

 

[GrahamM376]

All this bluster about 'nonsense', 'dangerous nonsense' and 'rules' is hilarious.

I am with those who say 'just keep out of the bloody way'.

I know I do, and I am still here to tell the tales.

+1

I find the term "impede" to be ambiguous in that it could be taken to mean that if you cause a vessel to change course to avoid you (to give way to you) in the TSS, you are impeding his passage.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Dangerous nonsense. If that is what the rules meant why don't they say that.

The requirement not to impede is explicitly defined in the rules, which also makes it clear that normal give way / stand on rules apply.

Agreed.

If the visibility is less than about 5nm, and you don't have radar, it is almost inevitable that slower boats crossing the Dover straits will sometimes cause large vessels coming from port to alter course. They see you on radar, determine a collision risk is possible, and in many cases will react, when they are still out of your sight. Impeding, in the narrow definition of causing someone using a TSS to take avoiding action, is therefore inevitable some time if you are a slow boat crossing.

Those who advocate "always keep out of the way" should therefore either fit radar, or only cross when visibility is 10nm plus, or cross under third party radar surveillance. Or go so fast that it's your problem anyway!

An issue related to "in sight" also arises in the matter of sail vs power. Vessels over 20m using the TSS will behave as if crossing vessels are power vessels unless they are seen. Even then, many will still behave as if you're under power. So the safest and most unambiguous way for a sail boat to cross is to do so under engine, with a cone hoisted or motoring light on, and with the jib furled. It's then completely clear to any vessels coming from starboard that you're not going to expect them to give way . . .

 

[reginaldon]

Don't try swimming over then.

It happens - been on an escort vessel.