Crossed bow lines

[bluedragon]

Looking around the marina yesterday, some people had run their "V" bow lines through the fairlead to the cleat on the opposite side. For example, starboard line through starboard fairlead, but then across the anchor locker to the port side bow cleat. I've thought hard about this and looked at the angles and loads on the fairlead and line, and the possible effect of wind or surge creating movement and chafe, but I can't convince myself it makes any difference to going around a tighter angle to the corresponding cleat. Can someone enlighten me?

 

[rivonia]

Hmm I would have thought that it would cause friction and that would be detrimental?

 

[bluedragon]

Actually that's what I thought...that running at a shallow angle through the fairlead, the line would be more likely to move back and fore and chafe. When brought back on a tighter angle to the corresponding cleat, it's more likely to stay in place and not fret? But there's some logic as to why people do this cross-over...it just escapes me.

 

[vyv_cox]

The main reason I do it is that it eliminates the creaking of the warps, which then is amplified by the deck. As we sleep in the forecabin this contributes greatly to our sleeping pleasure.

But also I think the general principle of not taking the warps through an acute angle at the fairleads, which in my case are attached only by screws, is a far stronger one. When I kept my boat in a marina I had plastic tubing over the warps at the fairleads to protect from chafe, although I can't say chafe was ever a problem.

 

[boaterbaz]

going to the opposite cleat keeps a fair lead on the rope. Rope doesnot like going around corners. Hence less likelyhood of the rope snapping under tension. Also fairleads tend to be not that well secures. I have heaved a few from the deck at anchor with an easterly swell.

 

[Slow_boat]

Fair Lead.

The clue's in the name.

 

[bluedragon]

Just thinking this through from the replies, maybe it IS to protect the fairleads from being pulled out. If the line is "jammed" in the fairlead by a tight angle and protective hose (like mine is) then the fairlead is taking any snatch loads first rather than the cleat?? If the line could move over the fairlead surface (or through the hose) then the load is not being transferred to the fairlead (BUT the downside is chafe!).

 

[DerrickHigton]

I have had fairleads removed by snatch loads when I havn't given the lines a fait lead. Whenever possible, I always take the lines accross the deck.

 

[andy_wilson]

Fair lead

Sharp bends in rope 1/2 it's strength (don't ask me where I got that from), so at least if they are at the end (where the knots are) you can chop it off when it's had it!

Best strategy, especially if wintering (or surviving autumn gales) afloat, is to use as many lines as possible, and as many cleats as possible (sheet winches are probably the best cleats).

The longer the lines the greater the stretch if brought up with a jolt, short breast ropes are the ones to rip cleats out.

Top tip - take line from one cleat on boat to one cleat on pontoon, lock off with figure of 8's and take back to same cleat on boat, but slightly slacker. If she takes a big snatch load the tighter line will take the brunt and stretch until the slacker rope comes into play to arrest the motion (hopefully).

 

[bluedragon]

I use spring and rubber compensators on the lines to minimise snatch, so maybe it's OK...but this exchange of ideas is making me re-think. On the stern, I haven't got any choice...the line has to turn back on itself at a tight angle, and one of the centre fairlead springs as well. But on the latter at least there is unlikely to be the same snatch potential.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Depending on the profile of the foredeck, lines crossing it might cause damage to themselves and to the deck.

 

[bluedragon]

Good point!

 

[alahol2]

Crossing the deck implies the pull on the cleat is not optimal.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Crossing the deck implies the pull on the cleat is not optimal.

That must depend on the arrangement of the foredeck hardware, surely.

 

[gasdave]

Crossing the deck implies the pull on the cleat is not optimal.

So is the optimal direction of pull on a cleat longitudinal (along the length of the cleat)?

This is how mine are secured but it does mean that the lines are bent more acutely to the cleat on the same side, through the plastic hose. I too have used rubber mooring compensators.

 

[William_H]

Mooring lines

Generally mooring lines should be as long as possible so that there is room for rise and fall of the boat.
In our club marina the jetties are fixed so mooring lines must allow for tidal rise and fall. About 1 metre.
Hence certainly at the stern the lines should be crossed to give a longer line so that if the boat falls lower the line lifts off the deck and can remain at a similar tightness with vertical movement.
This idea does not follow so well with bow lines as the difference in line length is not much. My guess is that people follow the philosophy any way.
The trick with mooring is to have each line only providing location (ie pull) in one direction. So bow lines keep bow located sideways. Stern lines locate the boat stern sideways and long springers locate the boat fore and aft. This way all lines can be as loose as possible consistent with locating the boat in its place but not beyond boundaries. ie banging jetty. But of course every different mooring (we call them a "pen") requires different mooring line arrangement. olewill

 

[prv]

Generally mooring lines should be as long as possible so that there is room for rise and fall of the boat.

The vast majority of permanent alongside berths in this country are to floating pontoons. Our tides are anything from three to twelve metres, so while you might moor overnight alongside a traditional quay, most people would consider that too active for a yacht's home berth where it will be left unattended.

Pete

 

[Amulet]

Looking around the marina yesterday, some people had run their "V" bow lines through the fairlead to the cleat on the opposite side. For example, starboard line through starboard fairlead, but then across the anchor locker to the port side bow cleat. I've thought hard about this and looked at the angles and loads on the fairlead and line, and the possible effect of wind or surge creating movement and chafe, but I can't convince myself it makes any difference to going around a tighter angle to the corresponding cleat. Can someone enlighten me?

I'm a cross dresser too - it gives a pretty much straight lead to the cleats. I suppose you could say I put the fairleads in the wrong place!

 

[Grumpybear]

I do it because, given the foredeck layout, a warp running from a fairlead to the same side cleat has to go round a pulpit stanchion thus potentially subjecting it to high horizontal shock loads. Also, crossing over means a virtually straight line from the pontoon cleat to the onboard cleat with only a 30 deg ish change of line in the vertical plane

 

[Slow_boat]

Surely the best way is as near as possible a straight line from cleat through fairlead to securing point. Any kink or angle in a line is a weak point and a tight angle through a fairlead is a chafe point.