Croatia EU VAT - New Advice!?

Barnac1e said:
The ultimate paragraph of that document is foreboding:
"Given the fact that the ownership of the vessel and the flag the vessel files do not constitute the proof of the vessel's Community status, every vessel entering the EU customs territory may be subject to customs control either by Croatian customs or by any other Member State's customs authority. Therefore, EU residents should always have on board some kind of proof that the customs and/or VAT have been paid for the vessel in question in one of the Member States. The proof includes T2L document or original invoice, tax administration certificate, or other respective document proving the VAT has been paid."​

With my UK Part I registration and a builder's certificate of pre-1985 construction I have only half the proof needed for "deemed VAT-paid" status, missing is any document to prove my boat was in the EU in 1992, which was before my ownership. It is why I kept clear of Croatia during their accession year but I had thought such pedantry, that no other country could possibly invoke, would have passed for 2014. Now I cannot be sure about that.
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Can I assume that any boat that was in Croatia and paid VAT in Croatia last season is not affected by this nonsense?
 
Deleted User said:
Can I assume that any boat that was in Croatia and paid VAT in Croatia last season is not affected by this nonsense?
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Thats my understanding (Hope) - my logic is, that we have already imported our boat into Croatia (paid Customs import tax prior to VAT payment) so left the 'Temporary Import Procedure' - but they don't make it clear.

I believe this is another cash sucking strategy for all the EU VAT paid boats who didn't pay or do anything last year ?
 
Deleted User said:
Can I assume that any boat that was in Croatia and paid VAT in Croatia last season is not affected by this nonsense?
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How could you possibly be affected? During your VAT payment process in Croatia you must have been provided with a document - such as receipt for payment - that complies with: "The proof includes T2L document or original invoice, tax administration certificate, or other respective document proving the VAT has been paid."
 
This is the interesting bit :

In order to release a vessel for free circulation a customs declaration should be submitted. When the vessels placed under temporary import procedure before 01 July 2013 are released for free circulation, customs office shall calculate and charge import duty and value added tax (VAT) except in the cases listed below.
- proved by presenting T2L document (which may also be issued retrospectively by one of the 27 EU Member State upon the owner’s request) or presenting a document proving preferential origin of goods (EUR1 document, issued 30 June 2013 at the latest).

As i read this ... if your EU VAT paid boat (prior to Jul13 & not involved in the Croatian payment scheme) - that was in Croatian Temporary Import in 2013 - you now have to pay Customs charges unless you have a T2L or EUR1. These documents, i found, are almost impossible to get retrospectively. Thats gonna cause some pain. I guess you could just check out of Croatia for the day and then check back in ? This all seems a bit weird !
 
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Barnac1e said:
The ultimate paragraph of that document is foreboding:
"Given the fact that the ownership of the vessel and the flag the vessel files do not constitute the proof of the vessel's Community status, every vessel entering the EU customs territory may be subject to customs control either by Croatian customs or by any other Member State's customs authority. Therefore, EU residents should always have on board some kind of proof that the customs and/or VAT have been paid for the vessel in question in one of the Member States. The proof includes T2L document or original invoice, tax administration certificate, or other respective document proving the VAT has been paid."​

With my UK Part I registration and a builder's certificate of pre-1985 construction I have only half the proof needed for "deemed VAT-paid" status, missing is any document to prove my boat was in the EU in 1992, which was before my ownership. It is why I kept clear of Croatia during their accession year but I had thought such pedantry, that no other country could possibly invoke, would have passed for 2014. Now I cannot be sure about that.
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There is nothing new about this wording. It is only a restatement of EU Directives and applies to all states. The issue is about how each state might apply it. The HMRC advise to those who cannot comply is to ensure they have evidence such as the Bill of Sale showing the state where the last transaction involving the boat took place as any VAT issues are the responsibility of that state. It is unclear how effective this advice is, but there does seem to be very little evidence of people having difficulties with lack of evidence - at least from a UK perspective. However, given the recent history I can understand concern about what might happen in Croatia and like you would keep clear in your situation. Difficult to know what evidence would be needed short of an explicit statement from the government to allay fears.
 
Tranona said:
There is nothing new about this wording. It is only a restatement of EU Directives and applies to all states. The issue is about how each state might apply it. The HMRC advise to those who cannot comply is to ensure they have evidence such as the Bill of Sale showing the state where the last transaction involving the boat took place as any VAT issues are the responsibility of that state. It is unclear how effective this advice is, but there does seem to be very little evidence of people having difficulties with lack of evidence - at least from a UK perspective. However, given the recent history I can understand concern about what might happen in Croatia and like you would keep clear in your situation. Difficult to know what evidence would be needed short of an explicit statement from the government to allay fears.
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Thank you Tranona, wise words as always. I knew that the statement was a standard EU situation but one that member states do not find necessary to wave in peoples' faces. I can't help feeling that it may be a statement of intent for the future.

I have been cruising Yugoslavia and now Croatia since 1980 and have plenty of experience of the petty bureaucracy that officials there can practice. I have been boarded in a remote anchorage at midnight by armed soldiers headed by an officer with drawn pistol (Mljet) wrongly claiming I was in a forbidden area. I have been arrested by another military patrol for trespassing ashore in an unmarked forbidden area (Dugi Otok) - this time they were right however, it was an innocent intrusion but it led to an unpleasant series of confrontations. I have been rudely shouted at by a policeman when clearing in Umag because I didn't pass him my crew-list fast enough. I have been refused entry - also in Umag - for having only a copy of my insurance certificate, despite AXA Zürich phoning the harbour master to assure him I was insured and they could fax a direct copy. In the same office I have translated for an English skipper who was refused entry for no certificate of competence. Of course, the first two cases were in communist days but many officials with that mentality are still in the same positions.

So yes, I am very wary.
 
Barnac1e said:
I have been rudely shouted at by a policeman when clearing in Umag because I didn't pass him my crew-list fast enough. I have been refused entry - also in Umag - for having only a copy of my insurance certificate, despite AXA Zürich phoning the harbour master to assure him I was insured and they could fax a direct copy.
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Mmm, I take a more relaxed approach to officialdom. I also have been threatened with jail by an irate customs officer in Mali Losinj for mooring on the town quay before taking my documents to the customs officials for entry formalities and shouted at in Novigrad for not being able to supply the original of my insurance certificate in order to buy a vignette and had a gun waved in front of me during an inspection at sea off Vbroska by a customs boat. I always take my SWMBO along for these confrontations; she does a nice line in sweet talking uniformed officials and employing the nuclear option if things go badly, the nuclear option being dissolving in a torrent of tears. I've yet to meet a customs officer whose demeanour isn't softened by this. Oddly enough my SWMBO has passed on this unique talent to her daughter and as a double act, they're unbeatable:D
 
Deleted User said:
I always take my SWMBO along for these confrontations; she does a nice line in sweet talking uniformed officials and employing the nuclear option if things go badly, the nuclear option being dissolving in a torrent of tears. I've yet to meet a customs officer whose demeanour isn't softened by this. Oddly enough my SWMBO has passed on this unique talent to her daughter and as a double act, they're unbeatable:D
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;) A valuable and unfair advantage - where does one find such pearls? Don't answer that, they will surely be too expensive for this cheapskate.
 
Barnac1e said:
;) A valuable and unfair advantage - where does one find such pearls? Don't answer that, they will surely be too expensive for this cheapskate.
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Available for rent by the hour or day. Apply by PM:D
 
You lonesome chaps better keep a tight dress and a blonde wig in your cockpit locker then - for a hasty change prior to confrontation !
Sure that will unsettle the customs chaps :-)
 
Danny_Labrador said:
There must be a way around this. We were seriously looking at a boat earlier on in the year and I did a lot of research - came up with the same issue as you - valuation of the boat was very high - they have a look-up book and then graphs so they can interpolate for age.

We told the broker that it was deal breaker for us and then three or fours weeks later it was offered to us VAT paid (with all the paperwork) for not much more then the original price. I don't know how its done but I do know its possible.
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After May 31th, 2013 it is not possible. VAT is 25% and must be paid in full or boat must be older than 8 years on July 1st, 2013.

Rgds

Sinisa
Maritimus Consultant
 
O yes. What is actually problem. After leaving EU with your boat you made export documents and temporary import your boat in Croatia. After Croatia entered in EU your boat have "on paper" status that is is out of EU but physically boat is in EU. Forwarders must update boat status required by Croatian/EU law. Custom is using funny wording as "free circulation" etc what is confusing owners. This can be explained short as above and every one know what is problem and what need to be done. This status update can do only licensed forwarder.

Regards Sinisa
Maritimus Consultant
 
Hello All , my first post , I hope I will get better with practice . I have lived and worked in Croatia for a few years , enough to say I have a clue , not as much as Obi Wan Baggywrinkle but hopefully I can help a lot of people in two categories = prospective cruisers and boat buyers , from now onwards and will do my best to answer all queries about sailing here and the bureaucracy etc , as I am about to buy a boat here and go cruising for a season . I am going through all the VAT headaches and will if sale completes then have to buy vignette and sojourn tax etc . Then i will be in a marina a while , pay mooring ball fees and dockage fees in small towns and marinas alike , or can find out for everyone whatever they need to know .
 
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