Croatia EU VAT - New Advice!?

second post if it helps anyone I have just withdrawn from the sale of a 11 year old charter cat , VAT not paid , as the seller and I cannot get from anyone here including customs and shipping agents a definite answer to the question will the customs charge full VAT to one of us or not , at completion . A company owned vessel is treated differently to a private yacht . My Advice ? Do not buy any ex charter vessel in Croatia YET until someone has done this successfully without paying VAT and exported it from Croatia to Montenegro . ( if you keep it in EU its a no brainer , vat must be paid , obviously if value of boat small , then VAT much less etc . ) Onto next boat now , we now are in process of buying a private use only , EU flagged , non VAT paid monohull , 15 years old , always berthed in Croatia , same owner . We have been told that all kinds of documentation are to be furnished by seller but most important ones are T2L , ( which replaces EUR1 in case you wondered !) and Proof Of First Entry and we are told , ( = advised with confidence ) that these docs along with normal original sale invoices , CE certs etc etc should be enough to enter and exit any EU member state as an alternative to VAT paid invoice as the vessel was at least 8 years old prior to member country ( croatia in this case ) accession date ( ist july 2013 ) . if anyone would like to keep this thread alive for this season i think it will help a lot of sailors and if anyone has done this ahead of me please give me any other advice or info you have . Sorry its long !!
 
Had an e-mail yesterday about the 8 year's rule, it doesn't exist. All boats, regardless of age will be taxed, either through this scheme or at 25% on the 1st April 2014 i think. My agent has also sent me the document which was linked to above, visit the page of this article is very interesting http://www.swisscubancigars.es/blog/
 
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Sorry but i suggest change agent. This rule is wrong named. It is not 8 years rule. From July 2014 will be 9 years rule.... Rule is saying that boat must be older than 8 years from day of accession member state to EU. This mean that every year limit will go up for 1 year. Next year will be 10 years....

All boats shorter than 12 meters are and will be oblide to pay custom due 1.7%. All boats with sailing category A or B, longer than 12 meters and older 8 years of accession date are examped from paying VAT.

Rgds Sinisa
www.maritimus-consultant.hr
 
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Buying a boat in New Europe Croatia

costadelrica said:
Had an e-mail yesterday about the 8 year's rule, it doesn't exist. All boats, regardless of age will be taxed, either through this scheme or at 25% on the 1st April 2014 i think. My agent has also sent me the document which was linked to above.
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thanks delrica , I have a lot more info to offer in an update in the next few days .
Sinisa of maritimus has responded as well , and I hope this thread will continue and expand to help all cruisers and buyers / sellers here this year . i will be based here if sale actually happens soon !!?? for all year so will do my best to answer questions and provide up to minute data .

the current sale has been delayed this week by customs . the boat we are buying is VAT paid on original invoice 1999 , we do not have T2L yet , and the seller has agreed to pay the 1.7 % to customs ...but of course as always here ( experience from living and running a small business here ) there is much more going on behind the scenes. Our broker advised us we will know more on Monday 24 october so i will send more then .:ambivalence:
 
Thanks Sinisa , I have had the procedure explained to me by a shipping agent here in Split and my broker but even they admit that the rules are changing this season regularly and each customs office are treating foreign flag boats here as they enter leave or sell on different approaches , with different outcomes , so even though we know what the procedure was last week , this week it is slightly altered and no longer straightforward .

I will wait for early next week ( 24th March onwards ) when we should get the news from Zadar Customs re this boat's current status as far as Croatia is concerned then I will definitely call you for your advice then . Thank you for the phone number .
Maritimus said:
@ Shikamoo

If you can call me on my mob phone i will explain you procedure.

Rgds Sinisa
+385 95 906 1060
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Adrian_ said:
I'm definitelly not talking about new boats. However, if you had the experience I have with Balkan countries, you'd probably know that I'm far from clutching at straws.
Croatia could use this in order to get 5% not only from the boats being currently kept in Croatian marinas and harbours, but also from countless boats currently located in Montenegro and Turkey. They may seize this opportunity or not, but it's a possibility that I wouldn't rule out.
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Descended, as they are, from a long line of successful pirates, I'd be most surprised if it wasn't viewed by them as an earning opportunity.
 
For what its worth........ My yacht was in Croatia on 1st July last year. No-one in the Dubrovnik marina mentioned T2L over the winter. I then heard of boats being impounded for not having a T2L even though they had proof of payment of VAT.

The RYA are helpful - if you are a member. You can only apply for a retrospective on a special HMRC form that cannot be downloaded. SO I paid to join the RYA again. They sent the "special" form with line by line instructions on how to complete the form. I posted it off with copies of VAT receipt and Bill of Sale. I received the stamped form back by return of post.

Interestingly, I heard that Peters and May could help with retroactive T2L. They said that this could not be done but are obviously wrong.

Hopefully I will never be asked to produce the T2L. But now I have it!

TudorSailor
 
tudorsailor said:
For what its worth........ My yacht was in Croatia on 1st July last year. No-one in the Dubrovnik marina mentioned T2L over the winter. I then heard of boats being impounded for not having a T2L even though they had proof of payment of VAT.

The RYA are helpful - if you are a member. You can only apply for a retrospective on a special HMRC form that cannot be downloaded. SO I paid to join the RYA again. They sent the "special" form with line by line instructions on how to complete the form. I posted it off with copies of VAT receipt and Bill of Sale. I received the stamped form back by return of post.

Interestingly, I heard that Peters and May could help with retroactive T2L. They said that this could not be done but are obviously wrong.

Hopefully I will never be asked to produce the T2L. But now I have it!
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Having seen an earlier posting of yours concerning the T2L form I wrote to the RYA - I am a member - explaining that I was imminently departing Italy to cruise Croatia, that I was 'deemed VAT-paid' by virtue of build year and entry to the EU and what advice could they offer concerning my lack of T2L documentation.

The reply from the 'Cruising Advisor' did not advise applying for a T2L, in fact there was no advice given whatsoever. I presume your presence in Croatia during the accession prompts your concerns and the RYA response in assisting you to obtain this obscure document to add to the substantial portfolio needed to cruise Croatia.

From the RYA reply:
"We are currently discussing this with the EU Commission and HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) to establish whether there is anything that can be done to change the situation or if we need to advise all boaters to obtain a T2L prior to going to Croatia.
[ ....]
I'm afraid I am therefore not in a position to provide definitive information at present other than to provide you with a copy of the attached document which I understand has been issued by Croatian Customs."​
 
tudorsailor said:
Bizarre! I did the enquiry by phone to the number listed in this link http://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/news/Pages/DoyoukeepyourboatinCroatia.aspx

I spoke to the nice lady who said that might as well apply for a T2L.

Oh well, no harm in having the form.
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No, no harm at all. In fact, it is not bizarre as you just may be vulnerable by having been there at accession last year and classed amongst those EU-flagged, long-term based who seem to be the original subject for this demand. The RYA may have understood that and assisted you to guard against it.

Bizarre is the attitude of those Croatian authorities who now want to apply such a regulation to visiting yachts. To quote further from the RYA communication:

"The T2L shows that a boat is of EU origin and in the case of boats which were lying in Croatia when Croatia acceded to the EU (1 July 2013) a T2L has been being requested as part of the paperwork required for the Customs declaration to have the vessels released back in to free circulation in the EU."​
 
Dear friends!

Nothing is bizzare. Croatian administration is just following EU rules.

Quote

A T2L or T2LF refers to an origin document that demonstrates that the goods in question originate from free trade in the European Community. These documents are normally important since they facilitate the transportation of goods from one part of the customs area to another area by sea.

Unquote

Regards Sinisa
sinisa@maritimus-consultant.hr
www.maritimus-consultant.hr
 
A T2L document is used as part of a set of European Community documents when freighting goods by sea and the UK HMRC advise that this document does not apply to leisure vessels. It is intended to prove that goods being traded within the EU and crossing borders qualifies to be traded internally.

As only shipping companies who are authorised to handle custom-relevant shipments can issue a T2L it is bizarre and a distortion of existing customs regulations and also contrary to the spirit of open borders to expect a visiting yacht under free passage to possess such a document.
 
Seven Spades said:
Boats are not goods. A lorry driver crossing Europe might have a T2L for the goods he is carrying but not for his truck.
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Exactly. Boats, Road Vehicles and Planes are regarded as "Means of Transport" within the EU. If they are registered within any EU country, and their circulation fees are paid up within that country, they may have free circulation for up to 180 days in any other EU country they visit.

However, for longer stays, they may be required to prove they are VAT paid.

For most EU country registries (but not UK!) proof of VAT status is part of the registration process. So that's adequate. But for many years, Croatia was a convenient country of refuge for boats sold by charter companies VAT not paid (on the grounds they were being exported from the EU) then registered part 3 in UK. A few later produced Bills of sale between private individuals for "£1 plus other considerations" stating the boat was within the EU at the time. Hmm. Maybe true . . . but not proof of VAT payment

No wonder Croatia asks for an HMRC undertaking (although it's in the form of an irrelevant document) to cover their backsides for UK registered boats which were roaming Croatia before accession.

For boats which arrive for the first time after accession, "Means of Transport" regulations clearly apply. T2Ls are not appropriate. Portugal was challenged by HMRC a couple of years back for asking for T2L from UK visitor boats. They no longer do so.
 
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So sorry to all looking at this thread ; thanks for latest reply - my fault long time since posting updates . try to keep story short !

finally bought yacht in private sale it all took much longer than expected , but all went well in the end . now based at milna in Brac Croatia.

''8 year old rule + located in Croatia before accession in EU'' meant that the owner got his local agent to present all docs including proof of non stop stay at Marina in zadar to customs in zadar , they paid the 1.7% owed and we received the original euro vat paid , no more duty or tax due docs on completion . They have barcodes which can be run in any EU customs - checked with Igor at Oktospedicia in Split and with Sinisa of Maritimus ( also can be found in this thread ) , both were very helpful and confirmed the VAT status before purchase.

Igor at Okto recently processed the T2L at Customs in Split so that now we have all required papers if needed , anytime. Anyone need advice on this process let me know.

Thanks again for reading .
 
Now Croatia has circularised all Italian harbour authorities - the document is on display in my marina office and in perfect Italian as everyone here who discusses it comments in surprise) that a T2L document will be required by all visiting EU-registered yachts to prove their EU community status. The cat is truly among the pigeons here and transport companies are having a field day selling this piece of paper to yacht owners for €150.

The RYA have recently posted a page on their web site on the situation: http://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/news/Pages/DemystifyingCroatianrequestsforaT2L.aspx
 
So, Question .... does this mean that Croatia Authorities have issued T2L documents for every Croatian boat in Croatia ?
How do Croatian boats prove EU community status ?

I went thru the whole 5% VAT import process and I was never issued a T2L as part of the process ?
I checked with Sinisa and a Croatian Forwarder and was told I did not need one !
 
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d4raffy said:
So, Question .... does this mean that Croatia Authorities have issued T2L documents for every Croatian boat in Croatia ?
How do Croatia boats prove EU community status ?

I went thru the whole 5% VAT import process and I was never issued a T2L as part of the process ?
I checked with Sinisa and a Croatian Forwarder and was told I did not need one !
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Presumably you have a sufficiency of a paper trail to satisfy them. This latest directive is aimed at non-Croatian visitors who may have little or nothing, typical of the smaller (sub-10m that are ineligible for the Italian registry) boats in the armada that crosses the Adriatic every summer.

There is no check for this document on entering - as I found earlier this year - but can be demanded of any EU-registered boat by the Croatian customs anywhere in Croatian waters.

Edit:
I have just noticed that failure to produce this document can result in a fine up to 100'000 HRK (€13'000). Could this anti-EU principle of freedom of movement action be a classic case of shooting oneself in the foot? The number of small boat owners in my Italian marina who are voicing their intention to keep well away is significant. I doubt they are the target for such a draconian diktat but one wonders who is and if ultimately profitable.
 
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d4raffy said:
I went thru the whole 5% VAT import process and I was never issued a T2L as part of the process ?
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Me neither so what would happen, for example, if you took your 5% VAT boat out of Croatia to say, Montenegro, and tried to check back into Croatia without a T2L document? Also, whilst the RYA advice is helpful for boats with VAT paid in the UK via HMRC, what about VAT paid boats bought secondhand elsewhere in the EU? I've just bought another boat in Italy which I intend to cruise back to Croatia next year. How on earth do I get a T2L document for that?
 
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