Croatia EU VAT - New Advice!?

d4raffy said:
Here is another nice one for those with a couple of Portables onboard !

NOTE: The starting price for the license for the use of radiofrequency spectrum on a boat is 500,00 kn = 67 EUR if there is only one device on a boat.
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Maritimus is quoting 500kn , 65 eu which is ok if it `s for ALL devices inc Radar.
Are you reading this Sinisa? How are they going to charge?
 
chrisgee said:
Maritimus is quoting 500kn , 65 eu which is ok if it `s for ALL devices inc Radar.
Are you reading this Sinisa? How are they going to charge?
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Yes i am reading. I have good news for you. Draft for VAT law is made and should be sent to parlament. Inside is part about tax examption for boats older than 8 years. Now i am trying to find if this EU directive is mandatory or EU countries are applying volontearilly. At last one thing is sure. This is going in parliament for approval.

Sub reduction. I have sent mail to our finance minister on Tuesday and asked him who is obstracting job which will bring in governnent pocket 150000000 Euro. Told him that consultants are ready and just waiting soomeone to sign order which is written and which will reduce charges. I can post but unfortunately is in Croatian. Today i have learned that day after my mail (could be coincidence) responsible person signed order. Now this should be published in Official newspaper and after 7 dayds will become operational. If my rummors are correct the earlier 11 or 12 February this will be applicable. Once this is published in official newspapers i will be sure that will come in force.

Regards Sinisa
www.maritimus-consultant.hr
maritimus.consultant@st.t-com.hr
 
Maritimus said:
Yes i am reading. I have good news for you. Draft for VAT law is made and should be sent to parlament. Inside is part about tax examption for boats older than 8 years. Now i am trying to find if this EU directive is mandatory or EU countries are applying volontearilly. At last one thing is sure. This is going in parliament for approval.

Sub reduction. I have sent mail to our finance minister on Tuesday and asked him who is obstracting job which will bring in governnent pocket 150000000 Euro. Told him that consultants are ready and just waiting soomeone to sign order which is written and which will reduce charges. I can post but unfortunately is in Croatian. Today i have learned that day after my mail (could be coincidence) responsible person signed order. Now this should be published in Official newspaper and after 7 dayds will become operational. If my rummors are correct the earlier 11 or 12 February this will be applicable. Once this is published in official newspapers i will be sure that will come in force.

Regards Sinisa
www.maritimus-consultant.hr
maritimus.consultant@st.t-com.hr
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Thank you for keeping us up to date and taking the trouble to convey the good news about the VAT directive.
 
As Maritimus wrote earlier, the EU VAT Directive is currently in draft form and is going before the Croatian government to become law. It is not yet law in Croatia, but there are other sources on the Internet where this is now reported. (e.g. SeaHelp web site)

There seems to be some scaremongering about the VAT deemed paid status of a boat that enters the EU under this 8 year rule. SeaHelp is suggesting using the Croatian scheme anyway (and quoting the German finance ministry too), even on older boats, to ensure the VAT paid status is officially recorded. My feeling is that it is in the interests of agents offering this VAT service to process as many boats as possible so they may be exagerating the risk. At re-sale I would be happy to guarantee the VAT paid status anyway so I don't see the issue.

Anecdotally it would seem that little checking is done regarding VAT status of older boats by 'the authorities' in Italy, Greece, Slovenia etc. so ....

Is there anyone out there who has had, or knows of anyone who has had a problem with boats that have been VAT deemed paid under the 8 year rule (In Greece or other recent EU countries)?

Anyone else out there, like me, who is likely to stay foreign flagged in Croatia through accession?
 
Baggywrinkle said:
Anecdotally it would seem that little checking is done regarding VAT status of older boats by 'the authorities' in Italy, Greece, Slovenia etc. so ....
Is there anyone out there who has had, or knows of anyone who has had a problem with boats that have been VAT deemed paid under the 8 year rule (In Greece or other recent EU countries)?
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I am in Italy with a UK-registered boat and have never been checked for VAT status. Nor do I know of anyone with an older, foreign-registered, sailing boat who has been.

In 2011 the new Italian government under Mario Monti, introduced a new tax on all Italian-registered boats and our marina had four extra Guardia di Finanza officers allocated to investigate all berth-holders. Nothing, they focussed only on large, relatively new, motor-yachts and kept to their brief of the new tax, not VAT or Deemed VAT-Paid boats.

Of course, I can only speak for my marina (a very large one of over 2000 berths) and Italy is known for its inconsistent observation of rules and regulations. However, if one government agency is feared in Italy, it is the Guardia di Finanza and they do not, in my experience, bear down on VAT matters for foreign-registered yachts.

Edit: By "foreign-registered" I mean non-Italian-registered.
 
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Baggywrinkle said:
Anyone else out there, like me, who is likely to stay foreign flagged in Croatia through accession?
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What flag is the boat?

If a non-EU flag, and if you are a resident of the EU, after accession you will not be permitted to sail the boat within the EU unless it is VAT paid.

There is plenty of evidence that non-EU registered boats with EU passport crew are regularly asked for proof that VAT has been paid. Different for EU registered boats.

There's a fairly exact description of what goes on at [url]http://jimbsail.info/going-foreign/docs-and-VAT[/URL]
 
jimbaerselman said:
What flag is the boat?

If a non-EU flag, and if you are a resident of the EU, after accession you will not be permitted to sail the boat within the EU unless it is VAT paid.

There is plenty of evidence that non-EU registered boats with EU passport crew are regularly asked for proof that VAT has been paid. Different for EU registered boats.

There's a fairly exact description of what goes on at [url]http://jimbsail.info/going-foreign/docs-and-VAT[/URL]
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I checked out your link and I'm pretty sure I'm clean and have all the necessary docs.

It's a U.K. flagged boat - Part1 UK Ships Register. I am EU resident which is why it currently has no VAT paid and is lying in Croatia.

The boat is 1999 build and has always been in Croatia. I have a long list of paperwork from the original Builders Certificate from Bavaria Yachtbau in Germany to the Sales Invoice from the Croatian Company that sold me the boat, including all the Customs docs and Croatian Registry records and all the marina invoices since. Proving it's been in Croatia since 1999 shouldn't be a problem.

It should therefore, due to the EU VAT Directive (Article 420) qualify for the 8 year rule and be deemed VAT paid when Croatia acceeds. Assuming the draft law as it currently stands gets written into the statute in Croatia.

I'm wondering if after accession I'll have a problem being constantly asked to prove my VAT deemed paid status, and if so, what paperwork is sufficient.

The boat will remain UK flagged, in the EU and owned by an EU resident.
 
As I mentioned somewhere it's possible to obtain a 'VAT status document' from tax office or some other office, according to EU directive - which says country administration should 'establish' status on vehicles imported; so as owner (especially of boat purchased in another country) you will be able to apply for this, in UK. Paper check and administration's decision given on status.
I did while 'importing' to Poland, not importing really as boat was from UK, but our registry wants such things clarified since it's like first part register, ownership title and other such things must be proven.
 
Dear All!

Today one forum member have visited us in our office and we have prepared all docs. I am kindli askig him to confirm that we are existing and that we are not virtual company. ;) Last couple of days i am not very active on forum. Killed by work. As you are used to receive good news from me i have another one. Registration fee in Harbour master office is reduced officiallly.

New rates are:

Boats less than 12 meters 4000 kuna (540 Euro)
Boats bigger than 12 meters 8000 kuna (1040 Euro)

Before charge was:

Boats less than 15 meters 10000 kuna (1350 Euro)

Boats more than 15 meters 25000 kuna (3380 Euro)

Nice savings for owners.


Regards Sinisa
www.maritimus-consultant.hr
maritimus.consultant@st.t-com.hr
 
Rossynant said:
As I mentioned somewhere it's possible to obtain a 'VAT status document' from tax office or some other office, according to EU directive - which says country administration should 'establish' status on vehicles imported; so as owner (especially of boat purchased in another country) you will be able to apply for this, in UK. Paper check and administration's decision given on status.
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That is emphatically not the case in the UK. HMRC do not produce any kind of certificate about the "VAT status" on boats. The term is a construct, not a fact and you can only establish whether VAT has been paid in relation to a boat by seeing the original invoice. However, even that does not mean that the boat may not be subject to VAT in a subsequent transaction. VAT is a tax on transactions, not on boats.

So, in the case of boats that are "deemed exempt" all you need to show is that it meets the criteria - that is it is of the correct age and was in the state that accedes to the EU on the specified date. The boat may, or may not have been involved in a transaction that was subject to VAT. For example in the UK the key dates are end 1985 and end 1992. Boats sold in the UK between 1973 and 1985 probably paid VAT, but boats that were imported may not have done, but they are still deemed VAT paid if they were in the EU on that date.

This will be the case if Croatia follows the Directive. If the boat is over 8 years old - with evidence, and can prove it was in Croatia on the accession date, it will be deemed VAT paid.

That is why it is critical for people like Baggywrinkles and no doubt hundreds of others to know what the law will be as it will save them the cost of taking advantage of the "special offer".
 
I have draft of VAT law which will go in parliament witheen next 3 months and should be adopted before entering in EU. Inside is stated about 8 yeats old trafic gods. This is integral part of law and will not be voted separate. Because of this i am quite sure that owners of older boats will be free from paying VAT. I have several clients which have boats older than 8 years and they decided to import now just to sleep well.

Regards Sinisa
www.maritimus-consultant.hr
maritimus.consultant@st.t-com.hr
 
Maritimus said:
I have draft of VAT law which will go in parliament witheen next 3 months and should be adopted before entering in EU. Inside is stated about 8 yeats old trafic gods. This is integral part of law and will not be voted separate. Because of this i am quite sure that owners of older boats will be free from paying VAT. I have several clients which have boats older than 8 years and they decided to import now just to sleep well.

Regards Sinisa
www.maritimus-consultant.hr
maritimus.consultant@st.t-com.hr
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Thanks again for the info, looks like I can spend a bit of my savings on getting some work done on the boat instead of VAT - so the money will go to the Croatian economy anyway ;)
 
Tranona said:
That is emphatically not the case in the UK. HMRC do not produce any kind of certificate about the "VAT status" on boats. The term is a construct, not a fact and you can only establish whether VAT has been paid in relation to a boat by seeing the original invoice. However, even that does not mean that the boat may not be subject to VAT in a subsequent transaction. VAT is a tax on transactions, not on boats.

So, in the case of boats that are "deemed exempt" all you need to show is that it meets the criteria - that is it is of the correct age and was in the state that accedes to the EU on the specified date. The boat may, or may not have been involved in a transaction that was subject to VAT. For example in the UK the key dates are end 1985 and end 1992. Boats sold in the UK between 1973 and 1985 probably paid VAT, but boats that were imported may not have done, but they are still deemed VAT paid if they were in the EU on that date.

This will be the case if Croatia follows the Directive. If the boat is over 8 years old - with evidence, and can prove it was in Croatia on the accession date, it will be deemed VAT paid.

That is why it is critical for people like Baggywrinkles and no doubt hundreds of others to know what the law will be as it will save them the cost of taking advantage of the "special offer".
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I second all this, there is no such thing as a 'VAT Paid' certificate in the U.K. and the U.K. Ships Register (Part 1) does not record VAT status. I very much doubt anything official for a U.K. registered boat can be obtained from the Croatian government or customs so all that is left is to present the evidence if and when it is requested.
 
We have started with imports. First step is documentation which is confusing clients. I will quote interesting conversation.

Quote

Client says in his mail: "I do not understand concept of notarised copies of passports ??? This seems like a minefield - please simple list of everything I will need."

Maritimus says: You are not first time in Croatia. Hope that you are aware that if you must deal with government officials you should leave logic behind. We must make several applications (Harbour master office, Croatian Registry of shipping, OIB….) and each want confirmation that person on boat documents is existing what we are proofing with your passports. You could be dead but nobody is checking this. Jet. And every one want this in their archive. Not sure that 3 will be enough but than we vill notarize notarized copy. Wellcome to Croatia.

And your last about minefield please read my first mail from today. All is nice explained and docs attached. If it will be simple you will not need us. I am saying to client following. „For us import is hard work and for you mission impossible“. Do you have any experience with bureaucracy in India. We are not fare away :mad:.

In short words logic is that there is no logic!

Unquote

In import procedures there is lot of illogicalityes but please follow advices of your Agents. On the end award will be valuable. It is essential that Agent is on top of all and he will guide you through labirintes of bureaucracy.

Hope that R.... will forgive me publishing communication. This can help others.

Regards Sinisa
www.maritimus-consultant.hr
maritimus.consultant@st.t-com.hr



.
 
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Another thanks for your effort, Maritimus :)
Since I've posted here before -
Maritimus said:
First step is documentation which is confusing clients. I will quote interesting conversation.
Client says in his mail: "I do not understand concept of notarised copies of passports ???
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I was required to send a bill of sale and some other papers I've got for the boat - "or notarised copies of them" - naturally I'm not sending original Bill of Sale to the office since I may need this later and want to keep with me. Notarised copy costed me about 2 pound for a document - it's just a copy made by notary himself, confirmed with his signature and seal as being identical with original. So the officials have a paper proof to put in the archive. They love to have such...

Logic is another thing, indeed :)
 
And you are saving money. In Croatia one notarized copy cost 5.36 GBP, Seebrief (Austrian boat ID) 13.40 GBP. Power of attorney is even more. Still waiting first one. Bill of sale helping you if boat is 1-2 years old. Than is accepted by custom with small adjustment. If is more than this Eurotax book will be used. On my list there is 14 different documents required. And all this is to take money from you. Can you imagine what bunch of paper will be needed if you will try take money FROM government.:confused:

Regards Sinisa
www.maritimus-consultant.hr
maritimus.consultant@st.t-com.hr
 
First I would like to thank Maritimus who told me they could not help me as my boat is in Pula, they said the distance would cause large additional costs. I think they are straightforward- they gave me the name of a company in Pula. Thank you.I would like to ask Martimus what the inspection will involve?What are the rules involving life rafts services for this inspection? Also I do not understand the rule on third party liability-what if we already have UK insurance covering this? Do we have to take out additional Croatian insurance?
Furthermore, I do not understand the " sailing area" application?Does the boat have to have different equipment depending on the area of sailing? can you help me with the above.
regards Fran
 
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