Croatia EU VAT - New Advice!?

Danny_Labrador said:
So that's - EU origin + older than 8 years = no customs and no VAT ?
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Watch out for EU origin ? - To prove EU Origin for younger boats only an EUR1 form was allowed.
Even tho my boat was built in the EU I did not have the EUR1 - so had to pay customs !!! 1.7% !

BTW ... new rule - you dont have to take the Croatian flag any more !! - just pay Tax & Customs - Job done !
Guess they couldn't get all the boats thru the croatian bureaucratic registration process in time ...
Wish they had decided that earlier ....

A shout-out for Sinisa - he is doing a great job ....
 
Hi Can you tell me how did you know about this new rule re not having to take the Croatian Flag? Did Sinisa tell you this? Our agent has not mentioned it?
 
@ Fran55

Simple because we are professionals. Information about this i have received from Croatian Chamber of Commerce. I am on their mailing list. On my own expence i hiered court approved translator to translate information received in mail and all my clients have fair choice. D4raffy is our first client and at this time we didn't know about option to stay on EU flag. He was close to the end of process and he stopped what bring him certain savings. People which learned on time have saving about 1500-2000 Euro if boat is bigger than 12 meters. On smaller boats saving is less but still there isbig advantage. Clients were asking me about advantages and disadvantages. There is more advantages and in my opinion the biggest is long distance between your boat and flag admimnistration what is making life comfortable. They don't see boat. They eventually see pictures and mail explanations.

If you stay on EU flag after paying dues you can not use boat before July 1st. Because we are consultants and our logo is "Simple the best" our clients have solition for this problem as well :rolleyes:

What is difference between your consultant and us. We are long time in yachting industry and we will hopefully continue serving comunity many more years. Your consultant may be just jumped in to collect quick money and run. We say to every client. Now you are our client and friend. In future if you have any problem you can ask help or advice. We are happy to offer this free of charge. Naturally we will appreciate if you will hire us for some job as well if you need someting what we can do. Today i had client from D4raffy's marina. He was ready to import boat from2002. We have presented arguments that his boat is qualified for free import what was savings of more than 20000 E. In order that he feel more confortable we did all paperwork just in case thaqt someting will go wrong. He just need to send money and boat will be imported next day. I was planning do this free of charge but he forced us to charge our time. I will say perfect client and consultant :cool:.

Regards Sinisa
www.maritimus-consultant.hr
maritimus.consultant@st.t-com.hr
 
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Forgot one more thing. Due to fact that all boats registered under Croatian flag must have third party liability coverage issued by Croatian insurance we were discussing with various insurances conditions for our clients. On this kind of insurance discount is not possible. Our choice on the end was international player with business in Croatia (more than 60% of pleasure boat market) We achived that all clients which are importing boats through our service and have their third party liability coverage have discount. If they decide to extend coverage to all risk insurance (kasko) discount will be Croatian Registry of Shipping charge for job related to import and for boat les than 12 metres Harbour master office dues.

Did your consultant offered someting to you apart for import what you have paid?

Regards Sinisa
www.maritimus-consultant.hr
maritimus.consultant@st.t-com.hr
 
Just come back from Croatia having done exit and entry to avoid staying over 18 months.
Renewed vignette and soujourn tax etc.
Paid for a whole year as there was no pro-rata 'til 1st July. Will see what happens next year regarding costs but at the moment crew lists, customs, vignette etc. are running as normal - no mention of any changes in July.
Will see what happens (boat older than 8 years, built in EU with paper trail showing it's been in EU/Croatia its entire life - fingers crossed ;) ).
 
Baggywrinkle said:
Just come back from Croatia having done exit and entry to avoid staying over 18 months.
Renewed vignette and soujourn tax etc.
Paid for a whole year as there was no pro-rata 'til 1st July. Will see what happens next year regarding costs but at the moment crew lists, customs, vignette etc. are running as normal - no mention of any changes in July.
Will see what happens (boat older than 8 years, built in EU with paper trail showing it's been in EU/Croatia its entire life - fingers crossed ;) ).
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Thats an interesting point ... When is the vignette required now ? ... and post 01/08 ?
Boat options are now :
1. Croatian flagged + Tax paid = no vignette
2. Other flag + Imported into Croatia + Tax paid = ?
3. Post 01/08 - EU flag + EU VAT paid = ?
4. > 8 years old - deemed VAT paid on 01/08 = ?
5. Any Non EU vessel = guessing - will always need vignette

If you have imported into Croatia - do you still need a vignette
and what happens post 01/08 - do EU flagged boats need a Vignette ?
 
Maritimus said:
Today i had client from D4raffy's marina. He was ready to import boat from2002. We have presented arguments that his boat is qualified for free import what was savings of more than 20000 E. In order that he feel more confortable we did all paperwork just in case thaqt someting will go wrong. He just need to send money and boat will be imported next day. I was planning do this free of charge but he forced us to charge our time. I will say perfect client and consultant :cool:.
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Thanks for your kind words and thanks for your advice today, Sinisa:)
 
Baggywrinkle said:
Just come back from Croatia having done exit and entry to avoid staying over 18 months.
Renewed vignette and soujourn tax etc.
Paid for a whole year as there was no pro-rata 'til 1st July. Will see what happens next year regarding costs but at the moment crew lists, customs, vignette etc. are running as normal - no mention of any changes in July.
Will see what happens (boat older than 8 years, built in EU with paper trail showing it's been in EU/Croatia its entire life - fingers crossed ;) ).
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My vignette from last year - valid until the end of July 2013 - will cover my cruise from Italy starting later this month but ending well before 1st July. No way do I want to be in Croatia on that date despite Part I UK registration and deemed VAT paid on the grounds of pre-1985 build.

Theoretically, after July 1st, EU registered craft should have freedom of movement without the restriction of having to declare in - as is presently the case in the analogous, fellow ex-Yugoslavian country, Slovenia. However, no doubt as not yet having signed the Schengen Accord (not until 2015) Croatia can still insist on that procedure ... how else to rake in the Sejour tax?
 
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I think that you approach is bit paranoic. Yes we have lot of problems with our beaurocracy but is not that bad. You are smart and i will not teach you but you can expect (based on your wrighting) another problem sunner or lather because you are not reading law.

Sejour tax will continue. Who you think is paying collecton of your garbade and providing similar public services. For foreigner this is paid from Sojour tax. We are receiving every month invoice for this public services.

Regards Sinisa
www.maritimus-consultant.hr
maritimus.consultant@st.t-com.hr
 
Maritimus said:
Sejour tax will continue. Who you think is paying collecton of your garbade and providing similar public services. For foreigner this is paid from Sojour tax. We are receiving every month invoice for this public services.
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I would have no problem with paying a FAIR price for services when cruising Croatia - however, the Sejour tax is not that. Introduced to replace the so-called 'Kurtaxe', copied from countries that wanted to improve visitor facilities (where they went for a Kur, or wellness cure) in small communities with little local taxation income, it was originally applied to hotel bills as a 'per head, per night' charge - then on to marina and buoyage charges. Because this didn't reach those visiting yachts in more remote anchorages, in 2010 the principle changed to a 'Sejour tax' charged with all the other fees collected on declaring in at the first port of entry. In one stroke it doubled my cruising costs. Because of no longer being a genuine 'per head per night' tax I am charged on my yacht's length and the potential visitors I could have on board instead of my single-handed status of ONE person. I end up paying an exhorbitant charge for a fictitious crew.
 
Maritimus said:
How much you have paid? This must be considerable amount if doubled your cruising cost. The best advice is to avoid this stupid countries which are stripping down poor yachters.
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I should have written "entry costs"- previously already more than any country I have ever entered with a yacht in Europe or the Caribbean. They were all countries that recognise that visitors spend money in many different ways and that services are more than adequately covered. Tourism is big business - even small bit players like myself with our modest expenditures. I still visit restaurants and buy provisions, gifts and the like.

Your attempt at put-down sarcasm does not adequately address the point, nor does it complement your normally useful contributions here.
 
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Barnac1e said:
I would have no problem with paying a FAIR price for services when cruising Croatia - however, the Sejour tax is not that.
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Its just another tax Barnac1e. For example, the UK fleeces everybody flying in and out of the UK with Air Passenger Duty. Is that a fair tax when applied to foreigners? Of course not, it's a stupid tax just like the Sejour tax. In fact any tax applied to tourists wanting to spend their money in your country is a stupid tax. There are stupid taxes applied to foreign tourists in most European countries so I don't think that Croatia is doing anything that the others aren't in some way or another. I've just paid €400+ for a Croatian vignette + tourist tax for a year for my boat. Do I begrudge it? Yes I do. But actually its not such a high price to pay for cruising in Croatia, especially considering that some boating costs like fuel and long term berthing are less than other countries so in total, boating costs in Croatia are not exhorbitant
 
Deleted User said:
Its just another tax Barnac1e. For example, the UK fleeces everybody flying in and out of the UK with Air Passenger Duty. Is that a fair tax when applied to foreigners? Of course not, it's a stupid tax just like the Sejour tax. In fact any tax applied to tourists wanting to spend their money in your country is a stupid tax. There are stupid taxes applied to foreign tourists in most European countries so I don't think that Croatia is doing anything that the others aren't in some way or another. I've just paid €400+ for a Croatian vignette + tourist tax for a year for my boat. Do I begrudge it? Yes I do. But actually its not such a high price to pay for cruising in Croatia, especially considering that some boating costs like fuel and long term berthing are less than other countries so in total, boating costs in Croatia are not exhorbitant
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Mike, we have discussed this many times before. I don't agree with you but respect your point of view. We look at things from different perspectives, I from comparison with entry costs in other countries around the world, you from a more wider financial view of your total annual costs there compared with the other western Mediterranean countries. I from someone retired on a limited pension who makes many sacrifices to keep my boat and sailing; you from someone whom I suspect has very much more disposable income judging by what you spend on fuel alone. In the final analysis I just cannot see why I have to fork out €500 just to sail into another country's waters when no other country I have ever sailed to makes such impositions.

You know, when I regularly entered Yugoslavia all those years ago I didn't begrudge that entry cost. Not because I was earning and could easily afford it but because I saw good reason for a very poor country with an idiot command economy regime and a disastrous balance of payments. I could understand the need to screw the last lira, deutschmark and pound from visitors just to keep going. Croatia is now a modern and thriving country with a healthy tourist trade - true it has economic problems, but who hasn't? It no longer needs that distorted mentality of charging a visiting boat so much just to enter and spend money there. It's time to enter the real world - Slovenia did.

Have a great season afloat this year.

Regards,

B.
 
Barnac1e said:
You know, when I regularly entered Yugoslavia all those years ago I didn't begrudge that entry cost. Not because I was earning and could easily afford it but because I saw good reason for a very poor country with an idiot command economy regime and a disastrous balance of payments. I could understand the need to screw the last lira, deutschmark and pound from visitors just to keep going. Croatia is now a modern and thriving country with a healthy tourist trade - true it has economic problems, but who hasn't? It no longer needs that distorted mentality of charging a visiting boat so much just to enter and spend money there. It's time to enter the real world - Slovenia did.

Have a great season afloat this year.
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Thanks, Barnac1e. We have just completed a very relaxing trip with friends down from Monfalcone to Frapa and once again, I was reminded just what a beautiful cruising area Croatia is so yes maybe I do look at it differently but I completely understand your point of view and we can certainly agree that charging tourists to enter your country is plain stupid. Unfortunately, I don't think Croatia is going to get any cheaper after they join the EU. Like every other country joining the EU, the Croatian govt will use the concept of 'harmonising taxes' to push taxes up and I fear that Croatia will soon be even more expensive than it is now
 
Some updated articles from the German Yachting press and the SeaHelp and ADAC Web Sites. Sorry they're in German - the Germans are getting very excited about the lack of order and clarity on this topic. Put them through Google Translate and it is almost understandable .... highlights are:

1. 8 year old boats and older will most probably be exempt from any form or VAT charge, however a 1,7% tarif may well be chargeable for yachts under 12m that don't have a EUR1 showing origin within the EU Economic Area. Not sure if any other evidence will suffice.
2. The 8 year rule is not yet on the Croatian Statute Books, it is expected in June (after the 31 May deadline for 5% scheme funnily enough) and already promised by the Croatian Chamber of Commerce in January.
3. Boat owners should get a Customs Declaration from the Croatian authorities advising that VAT is deemed paid - didn't realise this but it comes as part of collecting the 1,7%.
4. There is a challenge now to the need to actually register a boat in Croatia to utilise the 5% scheme as Karl-Heinz Beständig (author of the 777, 888 Books) has confirmation from the Marine Ministry in Zagreb that it is not necessary - there is ongoing discussion on this topic due to conflicting advice from Croatian ministries.
5. The EU VAT Commission is perhaps going to launch an investigation into the 5% scheme as it has been used to assure VAT paid status of new boats delivered to the Med for the 2013 season and may be ruled as a breach of the VAT rules, effectively a tax evasion scheme. Watch this space - the EU VAT Commission are showing special interest in the transition arrangements.
6. From SeaHelp web site. The vignette/permit system currently breaks the EU rules and will be replaced with some other form of charge. The speculation is that it will be more expensive - advice is to renew before 1.7.2013 because those with valid vignettes are likely to get a grace period.
7. It is expected that the 18 Month rule will be more rigidly enforced and checked in the run up to and after the 1 July. Make sure the paperwork is up to date showing entry to Croatia within the last 18 months.

Sources: (Sorry all in German)

http://www.yacht.de/reise/news/wieder-aerger-um-die-nachversteuerung/a79207.html
http://www.sea-help.eu/SeaMagazine/de/54666
http://www.adac.de/reise_freizeit/w...en.aspx?ComponentId=161431&SourcePageId=58446

Other than that, I asked alot of questions of the Harbourmaster, marinas and yacht dealer in and around Pula at the weekend - no-one seems to know anything and I always get pointed in the direction of the import agents.

It's all a bit chaotic but my intention is to sit tight and wait it out - my paperwork is in order and I have a valid vignette to see me through to next year. My opinion is that the 8 year rule will be enforced, the people who have already registered and paid 5% did it in good faith and hopefully won't suffer any further penalty.
 
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