CRINAN CANAL Assisted passage???

JumbleDuck said:
You may find it's all a bit faster and easier if you have two people where there is quite a lot of work to be done and one person where there are two ropes to be adjusted from time to time. But if you've found out that doing it that way risks damage to your boat, and if your crew are happy with the division of labour, who am I to argue?
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Indeed.
I've seen too many **** ups by others who cut corners and/or haven't a clue what they are doing... Two boats, two on each and two ashore works perfectly - more ashore if available. As you say, if the boats are narrow enough to avoid opening more than one gate it saves a huge amount of effort.
 
A1Sailor said:
Indeed.
I've seen too many **** ups by others who cut corners and/or haven't a clue what they are doing... Two boats, two on each and two ashore works perfectly - more ashore if available. As you say, if the boats are narrow enough to avoid opening more than one gate it saves a huge amount of effort.
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I think we're broadly in agreement. If there are two of you, it's one aboard and one ashore. If it's four or more, two aboard and the rest on the shore works fine. With three - well, it depends on the boat, the day, how many others are going through at the same time, how competent they are and so on.
 
What none of you have referred to is the requirement to close the lock gates and sluices after you leave. Unless there are two people ashore going back to close up takes a lot of time. Probably why about half of yachts do not bother. Mid season when there is traffic both ways it is not so bad, but early and late season most boats are going in the same direction. It is a particular problem in Ardrishaig where some gates have larger walkways for prams or wheelchairs and to let local folk get to the shop, for instance there is sheltered housing across lock 3 which has a wide walkway on its top gate and I regularly have to go down to close it. It is even worse if only one gate is left open and you have to shout at some old dear to stop her walking straight in to the water.
The 'pilots' tend to prepare and close up locks in groups because they are more mobile ashore so will prepare two or three locks before the boat arrives and then go back to close down later but they are now usually working in pairs one ahead and one behind.
I have a fin keel boat that I can control easily, so am happy to be aboard alone, preferably starboard too so I can stop by the aft ladder. If I have someone ashore and it is windy, she uses a boat hook to lift the ropes off the lifelines where they have been draped as I leave the previous lock, a long bow rope coming back to the cockpit is a help. Once in the stern rope is tight and vertical, the bow rope is forward and adjusted as she rises.
 
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A1 Sailor, Biscuits sends his regards, he reckons he taught you everything you know (that is worth knowing) he remembers you as the student who always brought his books to work.
 
Quandary said:
The 'pilots' tend to prepare and close up locks in groups because they are more mobile ashore so will prepare two or three locks before the boat arrives and then go back to close down later.
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This practice by pilots causes delays to those coming in the opposite direction. What right do pilots have to assume priority?
 
lotusman said:
This practice by pilots causes delays to those coming in the opposite direction. What right do pilots have to assume priority?
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Ballox, it is faster, a pilots can only do it when the traffic is all moving one way, as it is now as everyone returns to the Clyde, if the traffic is two way it is to their advantage to let the boats coming the other way advance as they do not have to prepare that lock, in fact most times we will help them through because it is in our interest to keep traffic moving. You will find that if you are following a pilot he will usually fill or empty the lock for you, if he is following you he will often close up after you, he wants to keep you moving and to conserve water. By contrast the assisted passage teams employed by the canal use three guys for each flight of four or five locks, they all go together to take one boat through their flight and then all rest up for the rest of the day. Perhaps that is what you are thinking off. (The exception is in Ardrishaig where they are mainly girls who work all day)
Pilots are interested in keeping things moving, while you might be happy dawdling through, he is getting about £50 for the whole passage so will not want to spend more than 3-4 hours at it.
 
Quandary said:
Ballox, it is faster, a pilots can only do it when the traffic is all moving one way, as it is now as everyone returns to the Clyde, if the traffic is two way it is to their advantage to let the boats coming the other way advance as they do not have to prepare that lock, in fact most times we will help them through because it is in our interest to keep traffic moving. You will find that if you are following a pilot he will usually fill or empty the lock for you, if he is following you he will often close up after you, he wants to keep you moving and to conserve water. By contrast the assisted passage teams employed by the canal use three guys for each flight of four or five locks, they all go together to take one boat through their flight and then all rest up for the rest of the day. Perhaps that is what you are thinking off. (The exception is in Ardrishaig where they are mainly girls who work all day)
Pilots are interested in keeping things moving, while you might be happy dawdling through, he is getting about £50 for the whole passage so will not want to spend more than 3-4 hours at it.
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Oh dear, I seem to have provoked immoderate language!

You describe several situations where a pilot helpful to other canal users, and I have experienced this.

I have also seen a pilot prepare a flight of locks and cause delays to vessels proceeding in the opposite direction. This practice by pilots is not limited to times when the traffic is predominantly in one direction.

I am not the slightest bit confused between pilots and employees of the canal.

I asked from where the pilot derives his authority.

Are you suggesting that £50 gives a pilot a formal authority and a right to priority? It is a small fee for the work involved and I can understand the time pressure to achieve two full transits in one day. But my understanding is that the pilot is a freelancer, operating free enterprise and it is his choice to be there – there is no compulsion.
 
lotusman said:
Oh dear, I seem to have provoked immoderate language!

You describe several situations where a pilot helpful to other canal users, and I have experienced this.

I have also seen a pilot prepare a flight of locks and cause delays to vessels proceeding in the opposite direction. This practice by pilots is not limited to times when the traffic is predominantly in one direction.

I am not the slightest bit confused between pilots and employees of the canal.

I asked from where the pilot derives his authority.

Are you suggesting that £50 gives a pilot a formal authority and a right to priority? It is a small fee for the work involved and I can understand the time pressure to achieve two full transits in one day. But my understanding is that the pilot is a freelancer, operating free enterprise and it is his choice to be there – there is no compulsion.
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You have got me baffled now, what authority??? A pilot is a person, you are also a person, how and when did he gain this authority over you. You arrive at a lock, you pick up the handle and start to prepare it, what can anyone do to prevent you? Pilots make a point of finding out who is coming the other way, when I do it the bridge or lock keeper will invariably advise me on traffic approaching and where best to do the swap, the further forward the approaching boat gets the more locks are ready for me. What methods have these nasty men been using to obstruct you. If some one suggest you stand back and give him priority you might decide to take advantage of having the locks prepared for you or you could just prepare the lock for yourself and then leave it without having to close it because his boat is approaching, it seems to work for everyone else. You must have a terrible job getting your car on to a roundabout.
Of course if you are not at the lock you can not control it, like most human activity, control is more difficult to exercise remotely.
 
Quandary said:
What none of you have referred to is the requirement to close the lock gates and sluices after you leave. Unless there are two people ashore going back to close up takes a lot of time.
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I have assumed that all users would close gates/sluices behind them when appropriate. Perhaps I'm being naive!
I'm not sure I see how folk would need to "go back" to do so when they are there already, though. Surely the guy who casts off the lines does it, or am I doubly naive?

("Biscuits" is the sea-lock keeper at Ardrishaig, folks)

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Quandary said:
You have got me baffled now, what authority??? A pilot is a person, you are also a person, how and when did he gain this authority over you. You arrive at a lock, you pick up the handle and start to prepare it, what can anyone do to prevent you?
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That bit is very easy. If the handles have "mysteriously" gone missing you can do nothing!
 
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A1Sailor said:
I have assumed that all users would close gates/sluices behind them when appropriate. Perhaps I'm being naive!
I'm not sure I see how folk would need to "go back" to do so when they are there already, though. Surely the guy who casts off the lines does it, or am I doubly naive?
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This is why I prefer to have two on the shore; whoever casts off the lines closes the gates behind you and whoever is at the next lock, opening the gates there, can take the lines when you arrive.
 
Assisted passage, how the system really works!

After almost continual research I think I have sussed how the system is worked.
1, At Cairnbaan or Dunardry if you are the first 'assisted' boat there in the morning you will get assistance, you will have a great if rather slow service with as many as three people helping you. If you arrive after the first boat has started up, you may have to wait for upto a day or do the best you can on your own, this is particularly the case at Cairnbaan where 3 guys have to open and close a flight of four locks, they get tired when they do this once. If you are asked 'are you managing' reply 'no' being unable to manage is what gets you in to the queue for assistance.
2, Do not be tempted to prepare a lock while you are waiting, any display of 'competence' means you can not reasonably expect assistance.
3, If another boat with crew turns up and offers to go through with you, you will not get any assistance, so establish how many spare crew he has ashore before agreeing. If the other boat has a pilot go with him, the pilot will do all opening and closing of all 12 manual locks in less time than the assistance team can deal with four. Whether you offer the pilot any reward is up to you but if you get off to push the occasional gate he will appreciate it.
4 When you get to Lock 4, do as the bridgekeeper suggests, between 4 and 2 you will get for assistance at any time and the advice about not getting off to help or showing competence does not apply here, on this stretch they help most boats, and work singly and progressively so appreciate if you help with the gate on your side, rather than watch them walk round to do it. If coming east the bridge at four does not open for about 1/2 hour around 15-30 to allow the mummies to get to the school unobstructed, since the last locking out is about 17-00 do not hang back if you want to get to sea, if a queue build up try to persuade anyone not going out to let you go first.
 
I'm puzzled that the bridge at 4 is effectively closed (open to road traffic) when the school closes. Are there Health & Safety reasons why the mums'n'kids or dads'n'kids can't use the walkways on the locks, or use the main road bridge at the sea lock? Or is the bridge keeper so terrified of them that he accedes to their request to keep the bridge in place and available for them?
The rule always was that both bridges shouldn't be closed to traffic at the same time, for obvious reasons.
 
Regarding earlier posts about having two ashore (if you have three aboard) reference was made to the difficulty of one person throwing up two lines. For a long time I used to throw up the lines (or my crew did.) I also saw numerous failed attempts by people to get a line ashore by throwing it. Then I went through with Hugh and Jim. Not a line was thrown the whole trip. Instead, the bowlines were laid over the rail near the shrouds and Jim or Hugh picks them up with a long boathook. Seemples!! We have used this technique ever since. You still need to heave a line at the sealocks and lock 14 however as the canal staff do not have boathooks.

There is also confusion over whether to haul in the bow line, the stern line or both when going up in a lock. Many years ago, we went through both Crinan and Caledonian canals. In Crinan, the canal staff advised making the stern warp fast after tightening it then leaving it. The slack was taken up on the bow warp as the lock filled. In the Caledonian canal the staff advised the opposite. They said it made more sense to leave the bow warp alone and take in the stern warp as this would pull you away from the turbulence and you usually have better winches at the stern anyway. From personal preference, I prefer to control the bow warp as i have a good windlas and I can also get the boat at the correct angle more easily.

As to work ashore, both my wife and I find it very hard. Many of the gates are too heavy for her to move and the sluice handles require too much movement of her stiff back to operate. Some sort of assisted passage is now essential for us.

Finally, we do not find the Mull route to be the dawdle that others seem to find. We have been in Campbellton several times ready to go round only for the weather to fail to cooperate.
 
Wight Dawn said:
There is also confusion over whether to haul in the bow line, the stern line or both when going up in a lock.
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I think it depends on your boat, your position in the lock and the other boats there. If I am alone on one side I tend to stay back, use a longish fixed bow line and adjust the stern only, so I will move back slightly as I rise. If I'm sharing the side I'll adjust bow and stern lines to rise roughly vertically. When I had a boat with a transom I found that taking the stern line from the offside (if you see what I mean) corner provided a useful pull towards the wall. Using the rudder can be very effective, though as the flow at the back of a lock is generally forwards during the first part of the fill and backwards during the second, I have to change rudder action halfway through and for a time, as the flow changes, it has very liitle effect.

TL;DR: Find out what works for you and do it that way.
 
Quandary said:
After almost continual research I think I have sussed how the system is worked.
1, At Cairnbaan or Dunardry if you are the first 'assisted' boat there in the morning you will get assistance, you will have a great if rather slow service with as many as three people helping you.
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We went west with one other boat, each putting one person ashore, and had one assister up and down - though I don't think it was the same person all the way. They generally saw us in and tied up, started opening the sluices and then went off to prepare the next lock; effectively the assistance we needed and got was in preparing rather than locking. It was all pretty efficient, and very friendly.

The nice older woman at Ardrishaig sea lock, from Campbeltown, I think, was particularly good.
 
Quandary said:
You have got me baffled now, what authority??? A pilot is a person, you are also a person, how and when did he gain this authority over you.
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By appearing competent. I had a couple of days in Ardrishaig waiting for weather, and on the second day I spent a couple of cheerful hours operating Lock 3 for a string of boats which were coming in, rather windswept, from the south. I was looking for something to do, and as a coupel of short handed boats in Lock 2 weren't prepping 3 I did it and then stuck to it a bit for fun. Clearly I had no official status whatsoever and, in a grubby smock and sandals I didn't look remotely like anyone with any authority. However, I found that almost everybody treated my timid suggestions as authoritative commands, which was fun if a little disconcerting.

So .... you know that pilots have no status at all, and I know that pilots have no status at all, and regular users know that pilots have no status at all. But people who have never or seldom done the canal before don't know that and are liable to think that anyone efficient looking who knows what he's doing must be in charge and are loth to contradict.

As a parallel, think how easy it is for someone with no qualifications or legal authority to direct traffic round an obstruction or accident. A few years back I was caught in the mother of all snarl ups on the Loch Lomond roa, as a result of an overturned timber lorry. Traffic was at a standstill for a couple of miles and everybody was getting in everyone else's way. I walked up to the front and, without any right to do so, started organising people into turning round and going back. Without exception everyone did what I said, most said "thanks" and the road was clear again in about 30 minutes.

It's very easy for anyone, pilot or not, to boss their way through the canal. That doesn't mean they should do so, though.
 
A1Sailor said:
I'm puzzled that the bridge at 4 is effectively closed (open to road traffic) when the school closes. Are there Health & Safety reasons why the mums'n'kids or dads'n'kids can't use the walkways on the locks, or use the main road bridge at the sea lock? Or is the bridge keeper so terrified of them that he accedes to their request to keep the bridge in place and available for them?
The rule always was that both bridges shouldn't be closed to traffic at the same time, for obvious reasons.
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Terrified? You have not met Eddie, he is frae Paisley and that suggestion made me smile. Even JumbleDuck is intimidated by him????
The restrictions on the bridges at school time have been in force for a few years, do you expect the Mums to get out of their Suvs and walk over the lock? Not these days! The restrictions have been eased a bit recently and mainly apply to the bridge over 4, the 'new' primary school is west of it. I suspect there may be some sort of H&S reasoning behind it but it relates to vehicles rather than pedestrians. Many Ardrishaig kids cross the locks when they walk to school but more are picked up and set down at the gates. The bigger A82 bridge is not restricted in the afternoon but what can happen is that it swings at the end of the school shut down thus extending the delay at 4 which has to wait while yachties with all the time in the world futer about in the basin. The traffic can soon back up right through the village, the problem is compounded when a nervous new bridge keeper is hunting for a gap in the traffic to get the poles down.
I suspect the road traffic was lighter in your day?
 
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