CRINAN CANAL Assisted passage???

[Quandary]

The jetty we keep the boat on at Crinan is rotten to the point of now being dangerous so we decided to bring the boat back home a bit earlier this year. So the dog and I went over this morning, I let the lock keepers at Crinan know we were leaving to go through, they noticed that the only crew I had was a daft dog, who, while good at catching ropes, can not tie a bowline or even drop one over a pin and I have had a new knee earlier this year so not that agile. They gave me a yellow flag to hoist which would indicate that I was entitled to 'free assisted passage'. So we motored to lock 13, tied up and went up to prepare the lock, no sign of any assistance. While I was opening the gates two more boats turned up, both 45' charter yachts. They offered to come in the lock with me, I pointed out that single handed I needed to berth beside the ladder to get my ropes up. So only one joined me, a Hanse 45 with the biggest bum you ever saw. The crew were Russian , no English spoken but lots of shouting. The English family crew of the boat left behind came up to help get us out of their way, they were well organised with very willing and helpful young people ashore and keen to help, but the Russians only put one guy ashore while the rest ran around the deck with fenders. It was bloody hard work even though the crew of the boat behind was helping by coming forward and closing after us. The assisted passage guys turned up briefly at lock 9 and opened it for us then disappeared again. I managed to contact my wife who drove over to help and we got to Lock 5 by early afternoon. There were three guys there measuring the depth of the pockets in their boiler suits, she asked them why they would not help her close the gate. It was explained that if an 'assisted passage' boat is accompanied by one with a larger crew they do not bother to help, but surely it must be better than standing idly around the lock side watching people struggle, she pointed out that there was only one Russian ashore, plus me going up and down ladders like a ferret, and was brusquely told if we did not like it to complain to the office. When we got to Lock 4 we pulled in and let the English charter past to have a chance of getting to sea, despite being there at 15.30 they just made it, first the bridge could not open because the mums were driving over to the school to collect their weans, then a rib coming the other way got priority because it could get under the bridge, then the bridge at the basin was open, so in all a delay of about an hour, my wife and I went down to help them, closing up 4, 3 and 2 to let them get on, so they did just manage it by 17.00. It took us all day to do a transit that a boat with a pilot does in 3 to 4 hours.
My wife is reluctant to take the yobbos advice to 'complain to the office' and as canal regulars we are used to some of these guys, but for visitors it must be a pain, so I am tempted to stroll over in the morning and let the management know our thoughts on their summer staff, can not really do any harm surely, these types of organizations are never going to sack anyone?
Would you complain?

 

[john_morris_uk]

I am sorry you have had a bad time of it coming through the canal. We came through a couple of weeks ago and found the staff extremely helpful and polite. In general terms they couldn't do enough to help. At one stage we tagged along with a boat who had 'assisted passage' and were impressed by the care and hard work of the young people working the gates etc.

We've been through three times in the last couple of years and never had a problem. We have no connection with the staff or organisation. If I have any comment I wish they'd make it a bit cheaper, but beggars can't be choosers. It was forecast F8 at the Mull of Kintyre when we were coming through the week before last.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

In the situation that I believe you are in, close too and knowledgeable about the workings of the canal, then yes, you should. If it was me and I asked for assisted passage and did not receive it, was not told that accompanying another vessel with a large crew cancelled out the assisted passage, I would be furious and complain.

Did the RYS members not get assisted passage even though they were accompanied by other vessels? If yes, then remind them of their double standards.

 

[A1Sailor]

Summer Staff ain't as good as they used to be...

EDIT:
Yes - I would complain. Always better to let someone know about disatisfaction, rather than go away harbouring a grudge. The manager might be able to turn it into a positive learning experience for the staff involved.

 

[JumbleDuck]

In the situation that I believe you are in, close too and knowledgeable about the workings of the canal, then yes, you should. If it was me and I asked for assisted passage and did not receive it, was not told that accompanying another vessel with a large crew cancelled out the assisted passage, I would be furious and complain.

I had assisted passage both ways in the summer. I was given a leaflet which made it clear that (a) I might have to wait and (b) if I teamed up with another, fully crewed, boat it would be assumed that they would do the work. It all worked very well. Some of the time we had friends and got a little assistance; sometime we were on our own and got plenty.

From the OP's account it sounds as if it would be worth asking why the staff didn't insist or suggest to the Russian boat that they put enough crew ashore. I don't see why the assisted passage resource should be used for people who just can't be bothered to do the work themselves.

 

[dunedin]

I would put in a big recommendation for use of Hugh and his "Crinan Pilot" service. This is a paid for service, but worth every penny, and a tip on top. We have been assisted by Hugh and Co the past two years, and takes a lot of the hassle and stress out of the trip through.
(Yes we have also done it previously with 2 people and no assistance, but it is hard work, and with 4 or more plus bike which is a dawdle)

The Assisted Passage costs nothing - and therefore the expectations should be lower. Personally I think they should make a small charge for this and then staff accordingly.

 

[Bodach na mara]

I am sorry to hear of your experiences Quandry. I had wondered about assisted passage myself but we did not go through this year. Friends on a Bavaria 38 did use the service however and found it good. Personally I have always found that it helps to have someone around who knows the little tricks of the various locks, some of which you helpfully posted in a thread last year. Like do not try to open the south gate of lock 11 )or is it 12?) before the north gate as it opens itself once the north gate starts but nothing will budge it before that.

As you live locally, I can understand your reluctance to complain at the office. However you may find someone else passing through who could do so.

 

[Siochair]

I came across this web page you can use if you don't want to complain in person. http://www.scottishcanals.co.uk/our...assisted-passage/assisted-passage-survey-2013

 

[aquaplane]

When we brought Mistral through we were 4 up so didn't ask for an assisted passage.

A boat with 4 Polish crew joined up for the up locks and made it hard work for us as they only had one crew ashore and needed both gates open, we let them go ahead when we stopped for lunch on the summit reach. All I got when I sugested that with 4 crew 2 aboard and 2 ashore works well was nods and smiles.

We also noticed that sometimes there was no assistance for "assisted passage" boats even when there seemed to be some staff about. We didn't know about the "we don't help if you look to be managing" clause.

 

[Quandary]

I know many of these guys and many, particularly the females work very hard. I go down to the lock here to help them most days and see able looking guys who will not step off a boat to close a gate. Also. you are on sticky ground complaining if you can not avail of a 'free' service. But they recruit extra staff to provide it so somebody must be paying for it, surely even with lightly crewed boats these guys should be helping or else take themselves out of sight.
I would be in a difficult position asking Hugh as I help him occasionally as he passes here and there would be an argument over taking payment. If they did start charging for assistance they would have to be more careful with their recruitment, at the moment about 25% are recognized as idle and their colleagues are as irritated by them as the customers.
Yesterday, I was quite prepared to do my share when I could get ashore and opened and closed gates when I could get to them but someone needs to be on the boat when the sluices are open and the large boat I was with made getting to and from the ladder tricky once she was down. I was quite philosophical about having to work my own side but what has angered me was the three idle young bu88ers at Cairnbaan standing about while my wife was struggling and then refusing to assist her. I had got off the boat to close the gate when I came in and she was opening it to let me leave while they stood ten feet from her with hands in pockets, she rarely complains but this time she had a go at them, with no result other than to be told to take her complaint to the office.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I had got off the boat to close the gate when I came in and she was opening it to let me leave while they stood ten feet from her with hands in pockets, she rarely complains but this time she had a go at them, with no result other than to be told to take her complaint to the office.

That does seem complaint-worthy. In my two trips through this summer I never encountered anything like that.

 

[Seatrout]

I'd give Alec Howie an informal call on the matter. He'd be affronted that this discussion was taking place in a public forum and not be aware of the issue.

 

[uxb]

I'd give Alec Howie an informal call on the matter. He'd be affronted that this discussion was taking place in a public forum and not be aware of the issue.

Email him a link to this thread then?

They do have computers and the inter web in Ardrishaig don't they?

 

[lotusman]

I think the assisted passage scheme is an excellent concept, but I cannot decide whether the quirky way in which it works is charming or irritating.

Last year in mid July, heading west, two up on my heavy 38 foot boat we locked into the basin on Sunday afternoon ready for an early start on Monday morning. Assisted passage had been booked. We shared the basin with another yacht of similar size to us that had also arranged for assisted passage, and a larger yacht chartered by a group of Germans.

Next morning we were ready for a prompt start, together with the couple on the other yacht with whom we had made friends the previous evening. When I say ready, the Dan buoy, jib-sheets, and anything else that might get in the way had been secured. All fenders had been prepared and long lines with Bowline in the end neatly coiled fore and aft. We had exchanged cordial good morning and polite conversation with the canal staff who had carefully briefed us.

On the point of casting off I was addressed authoritatively by a newcomer brandishing a boat hook who asserted he was ‘THE Crinan pilot’ and had priority to take the charter yacht and German party through so we should wait.

We waited. Enjoyed further chat with the canal staff. 30 minutes later we set off and had a speedy passage through the first three locks very ably assisted by the canal staff. At the fourth lock we were asked to wait while a third vessel caught up. All proceeded smoothly for the next few locks, splendid assistance being provided.
We had a delay when we met several locks full of eastbound yachts. In theory this should not have been a delay, it’s part of the usual give and take of a canal passage, but in reality it was because ‘THE Crinan pilot’ was in the mix, asserting that the eastbound yachts should give way to his passage, he was effectively a mobile bottleneck.

Normal service resumed and we reached Crinan basin by about 16.00 hrs.

On the return trip, a month later, we were three handed and shared locks with two other fully crewed racing yachts that had been involved in West Highland Week. A very slick and efficient passage, we left Crinan at about 09.00hrs, were into Loch Fyne by about 14.00hrs. We had booked assisted passage, but no assistance was provided. Thanks to the generosity of the racing yachts, no assistance had proved necessary. The cost to me was a few cans of chilled Coke to the sweating crews on passage and a few pints of beer in the Victoria in East Loch Tarbert.

As an amusing aside, given the recent threads on the subject of a rafting, when I entered Ardrishaig basin on the Sunday afternoon, I manoeuvred to raft on a blue motor boat. A grey haired head popped out and shouted ‘keep off, no rafting, I am 84 and deserve some peace, Andy Murray is playing in the final, keep off’.

I would not have attempted the canal two up without assisted passage.

If I was under time pressure I would now exercise my own powers of assertion on ‘THE Crinan pilot’ because I now understand that he does not have any formal authority. If I had been under time pressure, I would have left the basin and gone through a few locks before mooring for the night, which would have given me an excellent start, well ahead of the pilot the next morning.

I am heading west again next week, round the Mull if the weather permits, otherwise through the canal, two up again.

 

[uxb]

I am heading west again next week, round the Mull if the weather permits, otherwise through the canal, two up again.

I hope the high pressure has returned by then for you, it's a grey , dreech day here with a breeze of wind on the way.

 

[JumbleDuck]

On the point of casting off I was addressed authoritatively by a newcomer brandishing a boat hook who asserted he was ‘THE Crinan pilot’ and had priority to take the charter yacht and German party through so we should wait.

I had a similarly unpleasant experience with a (not necessarily "the") Crinan pilot a couple of years back. I spent the night on the waiting pontoon at Ardrishaig. Another sailing yacht arrived first thing in the morning and we entered the sea lock together. After we arrived, a motorboat turned up and joined us in the sea lock, where a pilot joined him. He announced his intention of going first, with which the canal staff acquiesced, asking him to go through with me. Which he did, for lock 2 only. At lock 3 he deliberately parked the motor boat so we couldn't get in, then disappeared into the distance, leaving gates and sluices open behind him.

I was cross that the canal staff (a) did nothing about him jumping the queue and (b) did nothing about him forcing us out. It felt as if paying £50 was buying preferential treatment and not just physical help.

On the way back that year we had another piloted motor boat arrive behind us at Miller's Bridge, on the plane, and then deliver a stream of abuse all the way to Ardrishaig at the three sailing boats in front of him.

I certainly would not want to tar all pilots with the same brush, but there certainly were a couple of ill-manner louts then and it was a great disappointment that the canal staff seemed to unwilling to challenge their behaviour.

On a completely different note, I had my hair cut in Lochgilphead and was interested to discover that the hairdresser, who seemed vaguely familiar, was the seasonal sea-lock keeper at Crinan when I kept my boat there twenty years ago.

 

[lotusman]

Just realized my post above is missing a chunk of text that responds to the question posed by the OP.

It seems to me, Quandary, that you are the best sort of canal user: helpful; considerate; patient; understanding. Some users of the canal that lack these qualities, they will selfishly exploit others, and require the more enlightened of us to lower our expectations to prevent a rise in blood pressure. Fortunately there are many passage makers, like yourself, who are cooperative and generous in spirit.

You can do very little as far as unpleasant users are concerned, but the canal staff should have provided a better experience than the one you describe.

I echo the advice already given, management needs to be made aware.

I think this forum has a role to help give perspective on your experience, I regularly asked myself ‘is it only me?’ so I can understand why you asked your question.

 

[Quandary]

I had a similarly unpleasant experience with a (not necessarily "the") Crinan pilot a couple of years back. I spent the night on the waiting pontoon at Ardrishaig. Another sailing yacht arrived first thing in the morning and we entered the sea lock together. After we arrived, a motorboat turned up and joined us in the sea lock, where a pilot joined him. He announced his intention of going first, with which the canal staff acquiesced, asking him to go through with me. Which he did, for lock 2 only. At lock 3 he deliberately parked the motor boat so we couldn't get in, then disappeared into the distance, leaving gates and sluices open behind him.

I was cross that the canal staff (a) did nothing about him jumping the queue and (b) did nothing about him forcing us out. It felt as if paying £50 was buying preferential treatment and not just physical help.

On the way back that year we had another piloted motor boat arrive behind us at Miller's Bridge, on the plane, and then deliver a stream of abuse all the way to Ardrishaig at the three sailing boats in front of him.

I certainly would not want to tar all pilots with the same brush, but there certainly were a couple of ill-manner louts then and it was a great disappointment that the canal staff seemed to unwilling to challenge their behaviour.

On a completely different note, I had my hair cut in Lochgilphead and was interested to discover that the hairdresser, who seemed vaguely familiar, was the seasonal sea-lock keeper at Crinan when I kept my boat there twenty years ago.

I do not believe this, I think you may be displaying a little prejudice. For a start the pilot assists a yacht or more often a motor cruiser, he has no control over it, it is controlled by the skipper and if you were inconvenienced it is the boats responsibility. The pilot is not anywhere near the boat at Millars bridge so how he can be blamed for what is said or done there beats me. I have worked with Hugh and Jim and they are very far from 'ill mannered louts' Hugh has a military background with the attitude and deportment that that implies. I have never known them to leave a lock open or sluices up in the nine years I have been here unless a boat was coming the other way. They have taken yachts through for free more times than not and welcome them provided they are willing to put one body ashore to help, they do like to control who does what, but most people welcome someone with their experience doing that. At Ardrishaig he will have prepared locks 2 and 3 before starting and he does get irritated when after getting both ready, yachts lurking in the basin nip in and take possession. If you want to take control a lock all you need to do is get the handle and prepare it, that is the circumstance in which he might protest. I have always been impressed by their tolerance of freeloaders who join them and take a free ride without offering any assistance.
The only pilot I have ever heard swearing is myself but I usually require a fair amount of provocation but if your accusations are against me, all you need is to provide your boats name and I can consider whether you merit an apology, we tend to remember those who we had trouble with so that we can avoid them in the future.

 

[Quandary]

Brought the boat down from 4 to the basin this morning, did not bother with the yellow flag but the experience could not have been more different, sharing with a Sadler we were down in no time with willing and cheerful assistance at every lock, one of the temporary assistants was on her last day before being laid off but smiling and cheerful in the rain. I suspect the idlers at Cairnbaan will still be there next week. I made a point of expressing our appreciation for the help we received
The Sadler had to wait a bit in the basin for another lock to join him before locking out but they were only going to East Loch Tarbert.

 

[Al Dickson]

Can I second the compliments made here regarding Hugh and his team - we have been using the CC for many years and started using him when we had very young kids - 8 years later we still pay his very reasonable fee for assistance it's always a pleasure to spend the day in his company. I have also always found the Waterways staff very helpful - although in the case of the free assisted passage scheme it must be very hard (and probably not within budget) to exclusively achieve unless they are going to dedicate a couple of staff to each boat which is why I imagine they look for other boats to help out. Looks like they are damned if they do & damned if they don't as they probably need to comply with disability legislation?