Crew size

[Sybarite]

But Ninita is a Bermudan rigged, staysail schooner with winches. How is that the same as a gaff schooner with only halyard tackles?

I was really just referring to the size of the boats. I didn't read the detailed spec of this one.

 

[alant]

I was going to make the same indignant post, as I often sailed Kindred Spirit away from a mooring, and quite often her anchor too. I would have the main scandalised while raising the anchor, and in the case of a mooring I would also use the backed jib to throw the bow off to the side I wanted to go.

Then I realised that Kellyseye wasn't making this point - he just meant that the guy raised the sails at anchor while the boat wasn't going anywhere, because that's easier than trying to hoist them while under way under power and having to also steer a course and keep a lookout.



I agree. As I said, I'd quite like to sail on her. But the maintenance would be a bit much to want to own her. Maybe if I lived aboard and didn't have to work for a living...

Pete

Is Kindred Spirit a Sigma 38?

 

[Woodlouse]

I do not see any winches on the main mast to help make sail, so to raise that gaff sail would need four to work both halyards at once, to raise the sail in any reasonable time. A couple more to do minor tweaking and untangling would be nice.

Getting the anchor up with the manual winch would not be my favourite job.

To extend or house the running bowsprit would take a lot of skill and strength. To do it in any seaway would take daring as well.

Having four offshore might make it "less difficult" rather than "easy".

One of the photos shows only 2 crew visible. The rest are down below knackered, after getting her underway and all sail set.

In my opinion, impractical with less than four. I would love to be one of them.

She's only 47 feet. With sails broken down into schooner sizes two children could probably hoist the main. As Prv says a cutter of the same size would have a much bigger mainsail and having hauled up the mainsails of 50 foot pilot cutters since I was 14 with out winches I can assure you it's not that hard. I think probably you see two people in one of those pictures because that is the full compliment for that days sail.

 

[Rossynant]

I disagree. The sail is very narrow for a gaff sail, so it weighs half what the mainsail on a cutter the same size would. The halyards will have a 2:1 purchase built into them, and another purchase on the standing end for final tensioning. The mast hoop / parrel arrangements look good, should be little friction there. Certainly four people (two sweating, two tailing) would be nice for ergonomics, but not necessary for the loads.
Pete

As we were talking about tackles aside, note the halliards setup traditionally will be 4:1, seems such is here May be 6;1 as well, if needed...
Yes, such a sail is easier to raise - and certainly to lower - than bermudan. Tackles are better than winches. It's usual to have both halliards rigged for hauling simultaneously by one man. Just takes some time...
Anyway such schooner rig was originally meant to be handled by two. Man an boy (an a dog) as said above; I believe schooner rig was made popular originally in Denmark or about, four centuries ago and the purpose for it was ease of handling by one man...
Extending the bowsprit traditionally took two tackles rigged both sides, as it must also be tensioned against the stays. Or just by the windlass, handy and close by.

 

[BobPrell]

two people...... is the full compliment for that days sail.

My compliment would be "Well done! Youse are jolly good sailors!"

 

[westernman]

I do not see any winches on the main mast to help make sail, so to raise that gaff sail would need four to work both halyards at once, to raise the sail in any reasonable time. A couple more to do minor tweaking and untangling would be nice.

Getting the anchor up with the manual winch would not be my favourite job.

To extend or house the running bowsprit would take a lot of skill and strength. To do it in any seaway would take daring as well.

Having four offshore might make it "less difficult" rather than "easy".

One of the photos shows only 2 crew visible. The rest are down below knackered, after getting her underway and all sail set.

In my opinion, impractical with less than four. I would love to be one of them.

I have a 32T gaff rigged pilot cutter, 52ft LOD, 67ft LOA, with in excess of 800ft in the main.
I can raise the main, staysail, jib and top sail all single handed - and I don't use any winches for any of them except for the topsail sheet (convenience for adjusting rather than real need).

However, I would much prefer to be doing it with others. Indeed I can use up 4 crew if they are available. Actually another three on top of that come in handy for peeling the spuds, chopping the onions and making the coffee. There you are - need a crew of 8.

 

[Monique]

About 9 St and nice t***??

 

[Talbot]

She is much smaller than a Thames barge, and IIRC their crew standard was two men and a boy.

 

[prv]

She is much smaller than a Thames barge, and IIRC their crew standard was two men and a boy.

Their rig was well adapted for it, though. A lot of wrought iron winches, and mainsails brailed up instead of hoisted and lowered.

Pete

 

[Woodlouse]

She is much smaller than a Thames barge, and IIRC their crew standard was two men and a boy.

When they say boy, I think that just means youngster. He'd still be two separate gorillas in size though.

 

[simon barefoot]

My ex neighbours! Lovelycouple, crewed by the two of them.

 

[macad]

She is lovely...

But whatever size crew, they will become mutinous when they find out you cannot provide hot meals while underway because the stove is gimballed fore and aft, not abeam!

But having said that, I'd bring sandwiches!

 

[prv]

But whatever size crew, they will become mutinous when they find out you cannot provide hot meals while underway because the stove is gimballed fore and aft, not abeam!

It's not gimballed at all.

Not that uncommon, particularly on larger and more traditional boats. You just use deep pans and strong pan-clamps. Some people prefer it to a swinging stove.

The galley range on Stavros is fixed, and I've known the cooks there turn out three hot meals a day (cooked breakfast, soup and main course for lunch, main course and pudding for dinner) up to a force nine - we went to bacon baguettes once it got into a ten . This while heeling and rolling enough to dunk the RIB (see http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7270/7455717640_c127bbc89b_z.jpg , orange, amidships) into the water to leeward

Pete

 

[westernman]

She is lovely...

But whatever size crew, they will become mutinous when they find out you cannot provide hot meals while underway because the stove is gimballed fore and aft, not abeam!

But having said that, I'd bring sandwiches!

My MIL once prepared a full meal - chicken curry (starting from a whole chicken) with all the trappings, including a salad while underway in a F9.

Admittedly, she did not partake in the hoisting of sail etc.

 

[macad]

Must have been a big wave...

I now have egg on my face!

Although this particular traditional boat is not actually that large...

 

[Seajet]

It's not gimballed at all.

Not that uncommon, particularly on larger and more traditional boats. You just use deep pans and strong pan-clamps. Some people prefer it to a swinging stove.

The galley range on Stavros is fixed, and I've known the cooks there turn out three hot meals a day (cooked breakfast, soup and main course for lunch, main course and pudding for dinner) up to a force nine - we went to bacon baguettes once it got into a ten . This while heeling and rolling enough to dunk the RIB (see http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7270/7455717640_c127bbc89b_z.jpg , orange, amidships) into the water to leeward

Pete

Pete,

I think there's a bit of an art to gymballing a stove re weights and dimensions, any designers out there like to comment ?

Some stoves can flip the scalding saucepan contents onto ones' lap, or my stove is the opposite, very stable but the weight underneath probably slows the boat down !

Not including your boat, but some ungymballed stoves I've seen made me cringe, when they are unfixed and a violent roll of the boat like a mobo wash could send the lot onto the sole, spirit flame still going merrilly and fuel spilling out - might spoil ones' day or cancel it entirely...

Andy

 

[prv]

I think there's a bit of an art to gymballing a stove re weights and dimensions

Mm - I think the point is that the axis of gimballing needs to pass through the pan, so that the pan is simply tilting in place rather than being swung from side to side. Easy to arrange if you have an oven and grill underneath, a bit more tricky if you're dealing with just a hob.

some ungymballed stoves I've seen made me cringe, when they are unfixed and a violent roll of the boat like a mobo wash could send the lot onto the sole, spirit flame still going merrilly and fuel spilling out - might spoil ones' day or cancel it entirely...

Indeed - whether gimballed or ungimballed, a stove needs to be securely fixed to the boat.

Pete

 

[prv]

Must have been a big wave...

The wave wasn't that big, we were just heeled right over by the gale (despite having only the lower topsails and foretopgallant staysail set) so that the lee side-decks were underwater. There was a permanent trickle in through the bottom of the leeward messroom door (looks like a watertight door but is actually officially only weathertight) to show that it was immersed. The occasional wave was reaching up to the centreline in the waist and swishing around the bottom of the mainmast. In those conditions it only took a slight extra gust together with a well-timed ordinary wave to dunk the leeward RIB into the water - I didn't see it but I was talking to the second officer who had been on watch, and she said she saw the boat coming back out of the water with both the propellors freewheeling from having been dragged through it...

Pete

 

[westernman]

The wave wasn't that big, we were just heeled right over by the gale (despite having only the lower topsails and foretopgallant staysail set) so that the lee side-decks were underwater. There was a permanent trickle in through the bottom of the leeward messroom door (looks like a watertight door but is actually officially only weathertight) to show that it was immersed. The occasional wave was reaching up to the centreline in the waist and swishing around the bottom of the mainmast. In those conditions it only took a slight extra gust together with a well-timed ordinary wave to dunk the leeward RIB into the water - I didn't see it but I was talking to the second officer who had been on watch, and she said she saw the boat coming back out of the water with both the propellors freewheeling from having been dragged through it...

Pete

Of course, if it was not a long keel, but a fin keel, it would not have done that.