Creek Crawler

Judders

Judders

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Okay, like most prospective boat owners I have a list of requirements that simply can't be met, as I think about taking my first step from large dingy to small cruiser, I thought I might try and pick your brains.

I'm on a pretty tight budget and I am looking to be based in Burnham-on-Crouch on the Essex Coast. There's no way I can afford a competitve racer at them moment so I'll not even attempt it but I would like something for pottering up creeks but still stable enough to go out to sea and visit other rivers and inlets.

We really want something that we can genuinely go cruising in for a couple of nights, but we're both young and fit so it doesn't have to be overloaded with creature comforts.

I'm a sucker for a gaffer or at least a traditional style but that is not essential.

Any suggestions folks?
 
We started our cruising life on the East Coast out of the Blackwater with a Sea Wych @ 18' she was a great little shoal draft bilge keeler. Although with limited headroom she did have 4 berths, a cooker and a sea toilet. We paid £2,000 for her and sailed her for four years selling her for £2,200. I think they are still available for much the same price

We sailed up and down the East coast and all the Essex & Suffolk rivers and we had as much fun in her as we have ever had in larger boats since.

When you have sailed something like this for a bit, you will know exactly what is important to you and the second cruiser you buy will be an easier choice
 
Some question that might help you narrow it down are.

Do you need to be able to trail it?
Are you happy with an outboard?
Do you need to take to the ground?
How fast are the tidal streams where you want to sail (if they are fast then a slow boat will make trips complicated)?
Do you want separate heads - this can be a deal breaker for some people.

A suggestion

A seal 22 - shallow draft - sails well - room to sleep on - they are raced.

http://www.sealasc.org.uk/boats_items_for_sale.htm#Seal%2022/Sinbad

Worth a look - How big are you thinking of going? I started with a Pandora - 21 ft. Very nice boat. I found is a bit tight to stay on for long. Moved up to a super seal 26. Much bigger and a lot faster - but cost more of course.
 
what is a tight budget to me, could be impossible dreams or unlimited funds to others, so some idea of numers is a better idea!

Have often seen people purchasing a really cheap boat and then keeping it in a very expensive marina (costing as much per year as the boat cost to purchase) - thus doing the sums needs to encompass ALL the costs, and appropriate cost/benefit comparisons.
 
Of course everything is a compromise at what ever end of the market one finds oneself, but especially down at this end.

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Will you want to trail it?

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Not necessarilly, after all, storing a trailer is not always convenient. On the other hand, I would really love to explore the creeks, inlets and coast of east Cornwall and the Tamar (where I am from) and I doubt I would have the time to sail there from Essex, so driving might be the only option.

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Are you happy with an outboard?

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Once again, a compromise. I'd rather not have an outboard however on a small vessel it does rather make sense. Fruthermore, if one goes for a vessel with an outboard, one can go for less power/money now and upgrade as time goes on.

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Do you need to take to the ground?

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Yes

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[/ QUOTE ] How fast are the tidal streams where you want to sail (if they are fast then a slow boat will make trips complicated)?

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Good question. I honestly don't know the answer. I don't think they're too bad in the home area, although we will want to go furether afield at some point.

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Do you want separate heads - this can be a deal breaker for some people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Always a tricky one. It would be preferable but once again, compromise is the order of the day.

A suggestion

[ QUOTE ]
How big are you thinking of going? I started with a Pandora - 21 ft. Very nice boat. I found is a bit tight to stay on for long. Moved up to a super seal 26. Much bigger and a lot faster - but cost more of course.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is tempting to go for the biggest that the budget will allow, however one tends to think that this is likely to end up being a case of trading quanitity for quality. It would be lovely to be able to sleep four, but not a deal breaker. I would like as much boat for my money as I can get, but not at the expense of safety or reliability.
 
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what is a tight budget to me, could be impossible dreams or unlimited funds to others, so some idea of numers is a better idea!

[/ QUOTE ]

A good point, well presented.

I really don't know because we're trying to buy a house at the same time. I would like to spend £6k but I know I wont be allowed to. I recon I can justify £3k fairly easilly and might stretch to £5k if we get a good deal on a house and have a good year financially.
 
Nothing wrong with the replies ....

But the one point that hasn't been made ............

In the preferred area that you wish to sail etc. Take a bit of time going round boat yards and clubs ... looking at what others have gone for. You will see a trend for a particular characteristic .... there will be a reason for that.
Also stop and talk to owners --- I haven't met many owners who do not like talking about their boats !!

Check around local brokers yards and for sale adverts ... are you going to join a local club ? Often you will find a good boat available out of clubs etc. where people are going up in boat etc.

The main point is - the forum is a wide area and people in it have all sorts of ideas, requirements etc. etc. Many of which are not sailing in the area you name, in fact a lot don't even know where you are talking about - the forum tends to be forgotten about it being international !!

Honest take time looking around and atlking to people ... it's worth a lot for the small amount of effort ...

Good luck and happy hunting ................

(For my penny's worth .... the smaller Snapdragons were built / designed for East Coast .... along with Parkers, Jaguars, Alacrity's etc. etc. - the list is quite large .....)
 
Re: Nothing wrong with the replies ....

And once you've identified what's good for your area (bilge or lift keel) look for a boat in an area that fin and deep keels are popular. Any bilge or lift keelers in such an area will be less valuable.
Even if they're for sale at regular prices, they'll be sticking, so a low offer could well work.
 
Apart from the gaffrig / traditional bit ,an Anderson 22 would fit the bill perfectly.

Wont cost a fortune (usually between3 and 6 k for a good one).Lifting ballast keel and rudder allows creek crawling and they are very able little sea boats.

Also good performance under sail if you want to do a bit of club racing or just enjoy a boat that sails well.

Have a look at my blog for more information also Anderson Owners Club website http://www.anderson22class.co.uk
 
And here I go with the Kingfisher advert again...Kingfisher 20+ (as long as you don't want to win any races..!):

- 21' 7" LOA
- Bilge keel (draws 70cm) so able to take ground
- Separate heads (not chemical)
- Two properly separate cabins (sliding doors)
- Outboard engine in well (so inboard really)
- Built like brick Sh**house
- £3000-£3500 will get you a nice one.

Great little boat, nice accomodation and crawls creeks like a dream. In the eventuality of an altercation with a harbour wall the bricks would probably come off worse. One of these little boats has sailed to the North Pole. But not something I'd recommend, you understand...

A few pics of our Kingfisher 20+ on my website (in signature underneath, although big pics have upped and offed for the mo'...) but for more look at The Kingfisher Owners Association website which has tons of info and photos. This page on the same website has the tech specs and some exterior and interior pictures at the bottom.

There are a couple for sale on the YBW for sale bit if any of that tickles you, and one of them going pretty cheap as she looks like she could do with a bit of a tidy...

Pip pip and happy hunting! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: Anderson 22 website

One of the forumites PMd me to say that trying to access the Anderson website caused his computer to freeze.I tried to edit out the link but the edit facility is timed out.

I just clicked on the link without any problem so not sure if there is a problem with the site or not.

Has anyone else had a problem with it?
 
As I bought and sailed all my boats on the East Coast, I will remind you of the best advice I never heeded at first!
My Commodore (Great Wakering YC) : The boat you want ain't 15 mile from 'ere boy!
I travelled over 2000 miles, to buy the boat being offered on the club notice bboard - a Corribee 21 with bilge keels. Truly orroble, but lovely to look at and very very wet. Nasty outboard, but it was all there for 2 grand (and they still are). Sold a year later for....2 grand.
Competitive racer? Oh yes! Get a Limbo 6.6 for around 3 grand and do all the river racing from either Burnham Sailing Club, or Crouch YC. Had one of those, fantastic boat for the 3 and a bit grand you should give for it. Centre keel, but takes the ground at a slope cos it sticks out the bottom a bit. OK on the soft mud you are thinking of. Was designed (like the Anderson 22 above) for the Mini Transat, so no worries of seaworthiness.
Jag 22 also available, quite capable. Loads of others, and loads of bilge keelers of all hues, most don't sail that well.
If you want a Gaff thing buy loads of varnish/wood/rivets/nails and a cheap yard storage, cos thats where you will be a lot of the time.

I still have an overblown creek crawler (Jeanneau 35 Lift Keel) and took to the ground last Sunday in Potton Creek.

A bottle of red wine served on the jetty of the White Harte in Burnham on a Sunday asfternoon, would buy you a Masterclass and tell you where and when to look. Believe me there are loads of them around......
/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
PS its so much fun doing it on a seriously limited budget. Don't forget you have to get all the other essentail gear too.

Jim
 
Re: Anderson 22 website

[ QUOTE ]
One of the forumites PMd me to say that trying to access the Anderson website caused his computer to freeze.I tried to edit out the link but the edit facility is timed out.

I just clicked on the link without any problem so not sure if there is a problem with the site or not.

Has anyone else had a problem with it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Works fine for me graham, nice looking boats.
 
Re: Anderson 22 website

No problems there are all. People often blame the last website they tried to access, when the problem is with a system that's about to fail anyway (for a variety of reasons) when another site tries to load
 
Re: Anderson 22 website

I have a Snapdragon 24 and I love her. She has bilge keels and draws change from 3 feet. Like the Kingfisher mentioned above, she's tough as old boots. Two proper cabins, around 5' 8" headroom, separate heads, 5 berths - for VERY good friends, but OK for 2 couples for a weekend and cumfy for 2 for a couple of weeks. Most have inboard diesels - a few have outboards, others Stuart Turner petrol "engines" Avoid these, they can only be relied on to let you down when you most need them.

The downside is that you won't win any races, and if you're pushed for time going to windward, you'll need that engine, but off the wind she'll pick up her skirts and go surprisingly well.

You should be able to get a decent one within your budget.
 
I sailed from Tollesbury Saltings for 3 years, first on a Ballerina (not so good) then a Snapdragon 23. The Snapper was great. Lifting keel, 8 hp outboard in a (non original )well, separate heads, 4 berths so comfy for 2. Sitting headroom. Goodish cockpit and quite fast offwind in a breeze with the keel up. Average to windward. Bought for £2000, sold for £2000.
And the Blackwater is way better than the Crouch IMHO
 
If you are on a tight budget, you may find the mooring/marina fees in Burnham a bit steep. Try Bridgemarsh or Fambridge. The marina fees would make the Solent-based bods weep!
 
Re: Anderson 22 website

It's me Brendon.
My computer is old and slow and the operating system is running on borrowed time. So it is probably my own problem.
A new machine is on the way.
Does annoy me though when webmasters put up such slow sites, with huge graphics all loading on the front page. Surely someone has mentioned it to him/her? It's not in their own interests to have such cranky sites.
 
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