Cost relative to boat LOA

[asteven221]

We are planning spending a few years in the Med as liveaboards/cruisers and in my research it appears to me that the size of the boat can make a significant difference to the cost of living on board. I would be really interested to get advice from experienced cruisers, on why there is a significant increase in cost.

For my purposes I am thinking about the differences between a boat at say 38 to 42ft and 43 to 50ft.

The only obvious costs I can see are marina costs and everything associated with marinas and yards. Even then if the cost is a straight rate/meter then the differences won't amount to awful lot, but if it charged at a rate up to say 40ft and then the rate hikes up for any boat over 40ft then I can see that making a big difference.

I am trying to get a feel for costs directly associated with the lenght of the boat. FWIW our thoughts are towards something along the lines of a Beneteau 473 or similar, however if the cost goes mad compared to say a Beneteau 423 then the 473 might not be worth it. Likewise if the 423 is massively more expensive to run compared to another 40ft boat then a smaller boat would be worth considering.

Thanks for any advice offered.

 

[macd]

In rough terms, marina fees rise with the length of the boat, maintenance costs with the square of the length. Unless you're planning on hitting the more extravagant marinas in high season, the latter is likely to be the bigger long-term cost.

 

[Firefly211]

Others may know better but sometimes smaller boats (11-12m) can be 'fitted in' during the peak season when marinas are packed and 15m births are at a premium.

I work on around 10% of the current value for a years costs, including moorings. It's worked out about right this year, but long term liveaboards again may know better.

 

[Tranona]

Four different things to consider. Berthing costs which obviously go up according to length - but not in a linear fashion, nor consistently from place to place. The extra cost per metre can vary depending on location and the break points from one size to another also varies. 12 metres is a common size where there is a bigger jump and in some areas a drop in availability.

Basic maintenance costs such as antifouling and haulage/storage are also size related and can either be length or area (ie L*B) related.

Running and maintenance costs which rise according to size but of course are also linked to age and condition of boat plus level of usage. You also need to consider the amount and complexity of equipment and the time taken to keep it all working.

Finally in some places there may be difficulties of access with larger boats - draught, lack of available berths etc.

Most people seem to end up with the boat they feel most comfortable with and gives them the best compromise in terms of comfort and running costs within their budget.

 

[duncan99210]

It really is very difficult to generalise as there is no consistancy between marinas in their charging systems. In Spain for example, we've encountered marinas which have specific berthing slots at 8m, 10m, 12m, 15m and larger; places which charge on square metres occupied (LOA x beam) and others which charge by the metre LOA. However, as a general rule of thumb (minus Italy where they charge whatever they think you'll pay as you arrive) the further east you go, the lower the costs and the simpler the charging systems.

If you already own a boat, you'll know that the bigger they are, the more that they cost to keep running. Firefly's 10% of value is a good marker for planning in terms of maintenance. Of course, the further you sail, the more you'll wind up spending on keeping the boat working.

Another question to ask yourselves is what size of boat do I really need to live on board? Yes, a bigger boat has the obvious advantage of more space and the ability to host more visitors, for example. But equally, it needs more time and effort to keep it maintained and is more taxing to sail than something a bit smaller, especially with only 2 of you on board most of the time. A smaller boat is also easier to find space for, both in terms of marina berths and space in an anchorage; most anchorages in the Med become very crowded in the summer.

It's a balancing act. When we were sorting things out before setting off, I asked my uncle, a live aboarder for 20+ years, what boat should be buy. His response was the biggest we felt comfortable handling that we could afford. We bought a Bavaria 38 (11.95m on her papers) and have found it to be a good compromise between a 15m boat and someting smaller. Whilst we would now feel happy managing something a bit bigger, we don't think that we need the space and certainly don't need the extra costs involved in a longer boat or a multihull.

Feel free to pm me if you'd like to know more about our decision tree in choosing the boat.

 

[mocruising]

We traded up from 40 to 48' some years ago. If we could sell now we would go up to 56'. Yes berthing is more expensive as is maintenance, rope sizes and the like and of course a few extra litres of paint a year. However the benefit of owning a larger more comfortable, faster boat far outweigh's the additional annual expense, in my opinion. Personally speaking I would say that draft is the more limiting factor especially in the Med where we have been for 8 years now. At present we are 1.8 m and there are very few places we have been unable to enter.

 

[rivonia]

Most but not all marina's seem to be switching to Lenght x beam. This we think is much fairer for everyone.

We have a CATAMARAN and in some marinas it can be normal rate + 100% (on yer bike mate).

Peter

 

[laffinskip]

At a 100% more for moorings I can see why.

 

[Wino]

The owner of a 17 mtr boat recently told me, how many marinas had turned him away, stating that they had a maximum length limit of 14 mtrs.
However this was on the French canal system,when we came through we had no trouble but we are only 15 mtrs.
On the Med it seems thy have no limit whatsoever, apart from price!
Prices seem to be jumping year on year, I know many boat owners are having to seriously curtail their cruising because of the extreme rise in costs of both fuel and marina charges.

 

[BurnitBlue]

Lose the mind-set around feet and inches. Switch to metres when choosing a boat for best economy. For instance a boat measuring 10.1 meters (common) will be charged for the 11 metre band for that extra 10cm. It will add up over the years especially when hauling and pressure washing have the same price band.

 

[Tranona]

Lose the mind-set around feet and inches. Switch to metres when choosing a boat for best economy. For instance a boat measuring 10.1 meters (common) will be charged for the 11 metre band for that extra 10cm. It will add up over the years especially when hauling and pressure washing have the same price band.

Despite the use of metres for charging, the vast majority of boats have designations that are based on length in feet, so this is how people compare them, even though it is not necessarily a good indicator of space or capability.

 

[Mrnotming]

Despite the use of metres for charging, the vast majority of boats have designations that are based on length in feet, so this is how people compare them, even though it is not necessarily a good indicator of space or capability.

Hi asteven221
mmm... Some boats marketed length can be misleading,our boatyard sent around a "geometre" to measure lengths overall, resulting in an extra charge for us as length became 11.03 Metres instead of sub 11 Metres!

 

[rivonia]

Hi asteven221
mmm... Some boats marketed length can be misleading,our boatyard sent around a "geometre" to measure lengths overall, resulting in an extra charge for us as length became 11.03 Metres instead of sub 11 Metres!

We always show them the ships papers which shows the EXACT lenght and width. Perhaps there measuring was a tead out if sinc?

Peter

 

[macd]

For instance a boat measuring 10.1 meters (common) will be charged for the 11 metre band for that extra 10cm.

On the other hand many marinas hereabouts have bandings from (for the example mentioned) 9.5 to 10.5metres, then on up the scale. Yard charges are commonly directly proportional to length, but usually in the next integer, which of course would mildly penalise anything of x.1 metres, as you said.

 

[Tranona]

Hi asteven221
mmm... Some boats marketed length can be misleading,our boatyard sent around a "geometre" to measure lengths overall, resulting in an extra charge for us as length became 11.03 Metres instead of sub 11 Metres!

My Bavaria 37 is shown as 11.55m (37.5ft) in the brochure, 11.1m (36ft) on the Bill of Sale and and the registration when it was on the Greek register. If I was worried about the length I would have put it at 10.95 on the SSR as that is self declared and nobody checks. In my club we pay on measured length which in our methodology comes out at 38ft!

In my experience most marinas in the Med use the length on the registration document as the source for visitors so would make sense to get that as low as possible. However, as already noted some have bands, some with even number break points some at the .5m point. Yet others charge by the berth size or the area occupied and the odd one will physically measure. So, whatever you do somewhere along the line you will get stuffed. Different if you have a permanent berth as it can pay to choose a boat that best fits the charging regime.

The original question though was asking about boats in different size ranges measured in feet. This is still the main reference point for boat size as nearly all builders use feet to categorise their models with names derived from the length in feet. However they don't all use the ISO standard for the measure in publicity material - it is just a way of positioning the boat in its chosen market sector.

 

[charles_reed]

Going one stage farther - most marinas, as already pointed out, charge by oa length and, on the European continent none use feet and inches.
There is usually a step-change in cost/metre above 10m - 11.3m is, apparently, the most common length.
There are a few marinas and ports which charge from a base of 12m and add a surcharge on boats which are much longer than this (they're usually Italianate, Italy being easily the most expensive European country for marina charges).
Marina prices tend to be at their most expensive @ High season (April-Sep), though some areas have 3 season levels, Winter, High and Summer - the last is between 2-3 times the winter level.

Whilst one, in going through the Western and Central Med, is confined to marinas, because nearly all the anchorages are "developed", in the E Med marinas are in the minority (except in Turkey where the "Blue Card " is a major concern). All Greek ports are likely to charge a fee now, that is based on overall length (€0.30/metre light dues and €0.36/m for each day stern to and €0.43/m/day alongside) this is paid to port police. Some of the islands have a higher charge per metre. On top of this you are likely to be charged a flat rate for water and for electricity, between €5-€25, immaterial of the length of your boat.
If you anchor or don't report to the port police mooring is likely to be free.

In Croatia, taking a leaf from the British book and unlike the rest of Europe, they charge for anchoring as they do in many of the Mediterranean islands - this is usually a flat rate - between €10 - €35 and an increasing number of anchorages (in Balearics and Sardinia) are populated by buoys which cost a similar flat rate.

So: Your proposed boat lengths will catapult you immediately into the premium area for marina charge. You would be well advised to have good ground-tackle and plenty of anchoring experience as, during the season, unless you arrive early, you will find no space (where a sub-10m boat will probably get in). Attempts to book are usually ignored.

 

[Mrnotming]

So use Metric when buying if going to the Med,Imperial for bar talk!

 

[1bobt]

When we started out we had a 34.5 which seemed big enough then we had a 39 ft now a 44footer.
If could afford it I would go bigger,the extra space is the premium thought in my mind ,not the small difference in costs of marinas ,which are few and far between around here in Greece ,as for storage if you are well known and liked these cost can be brought down .
You have to be careful of the newbys that find it remarkable cheap to park here ,when I think them mad for overpaying and putting prices up for all those who follow.

 

[charles_reed]

I've been using both since 1972, but find many with an inability to working one or the other.

 

[charles_reed]

When we started out we had a 34.5 which seemed big enough then we had a 39 ft now a 44footer.
If could afford it I would go bigger,the extra space is the premium thought in my mind ,not the small difference in costs of marinas ,which are few and far between around here in Greece ,as for storage if you are well known and liked these cost can be brought down .
You have to be careful of the newbys that find it remarkable cheap to park here ,when I think them mad for overpaying and putting prices up for all those who follow.

I think you may have missed the point made earlier that costs increase geometrically with your boat length - whilst I agree for cruising the difference in marina fees is not a significant factor, when you come to leave the boat for the winter or as some do, come home in the summer, the difference becomes a very significant factor.
Now, if you have lots of money to throw around, it might be a different matter - I doubt that prices will come down (your complaint about newbies suggests that you've observed the fact) so going bigger has to be balanced against the depth of one's pocket.