planteater
Well-Known Member
True, but most of that is present in an outboard which we use without a second thought.
Cost of marine diesels
- Thread starter Ubergeekian
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True, but most of that is present in an outboard which we use without a second thought.
Billjratt
Well-Known Member
Ahh Jim, that'll be the Saab that won all the rallies in the good old days!
Love this thread - three wheelers to three cyls in as many posts!!
Petrol engs in yachts seemed more prevalent in USA - my last boat one had an atomic4 originally, but replaced by a VP md2 diesel before my ownership. Wonder if fuel cost was the reason - couldn't possibly be weight (in a racing boat) could it?
As for ignition failures, I remember the "putt-boats" for hire in Largs had (I think) Stuart-Turner two strokes which just worked and worked - and that was with people like me fiddling with them when we thought the guy (Mr Silver?) wasn't looking.
FullCircle
Well-Known Member
No Bill, my Dad was a Mercury man. he did have a Bundy, but that was flash Italian rubbish and was soon gone.
Now, as for Pat Moss in the Saab 96, well that made a lot of noise and stink
Talking of which, I was promenading at Mumbles today, and there was Suzuki GT380, also a 3 cylinder 2 stroke. Nice job it was too.
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
Seen many diesel outboards recently?
webcraft
Well-Known Member
I am pretty sure this is the 13hp Beta. I don't know if Beta marine will sell you the bits for marinising the engine or if this would be economical, but it might be worth investigating. It is hard to see how the marinising costs four times as much as the basic engine.
- W
Keith 66
Well-Known Member
Regarding petrol engines in boats, i have had one of the best an RCA Dolphin, smooth, powerful, quiet & reliable & relatively economical, However the problem with any petrol engine is selling the boat. Any petrol engine is the kiss of death in this scenario.
People just throw their hands up in horror as if its going to blow up the first time it starts.
Yet the gas cooker doesnt worry them in the slightest!
People just throw their hands up in horror as if its going to blow up the first time it starts.
Yet the gas cooker doesnt worry them in the slightest!
FullCircle
Well-Known Member
Nanni, I believe.
FullCircle
Well-Known Member
Yanmar still make em, but they are a hell of a price. Excellent workhorases, not available in small engine sizes.
Jim@sea
Well-Known Member
They dont make it more expensive. We make it more expensive. Every time someone pays the over inflated price for one of these engines it justifies their belief that the price is right. Not that I know where these engines are made but if you find out the country of origin, get in touch with an agent there and find out a price. Google Translation makes it easy to formulate a letter, they probably have someone who speaks English.
You could end up saving money.
You could end up saving money.
Heckler
Well-Known Member
There used to be a chap that attended the nationwide boat jumbles, he flogged marinised perkins 3 cylinder engines (these are the VP 20X0 series) for about £1500. He did them himself. I had a good look at them. Basic intercooler (from ASAP?) etc, not difficult to do. I suspect he was doing as the other poster suggested, he had sourced an industrial engine supplier and was doing a simple conversion.
Stu
Tranona
Well-Known Member
If they are so overpriced then logically one manufacturer would drop the price and capture the whole market!
History is littered with failed marine engine manufacturers which suggests it is not the great money maker many of you think it is!
As with most "mechanical" type products, material cost is the smallest component of cost - probably 15-20%. The rest is running the factory, R&D (particularly to keep up with legislation) providing world wide distribution, keeping stocks of spares, being at boat shows to answer questions and so on.
If you don't have to do all these things like Reliant (putting together an antiquated engine in a shed) then your price can get to nearer material cost. However, you only get roughly 50% of what is needed to put the engine in a state that could be used in a boat. So £1500*2 = £3000. Makes a purpose built Yanmar 1GM at about £2700 look a bargain! Even more so the £3200 I paid for my new Nanni 14.
History is littered with failed marine engine manufacturers which suggests it is not the great money maker many of you think it is!
As with most "mechanical" type products, material cost is the smallest component of cost - probably 15-20%. The rest is running the factory, R&D (particularly to keep up with legislation) providing world wide distribution, keeping stocks of spares, being at boat shows to answer questions and so on.
If you don't have to do all these things like Reliant (putting together an antiquated engine in a shed) then your price can get to nearer material cost. However, you only get roughly 50% of what is needed to put the engine in a state that could be used in a boat. So £1500*2 = £3000. Makes a purpose built Yanmar 1GM at about £2700 look a bargain! Even more so the £3200 I paid for my new Nanni 14.
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
I'm glad someone has corrected the previous poster on the Reliant engine which is closer in ancestry to the Coventry Climax motor.
However, may I correct you about the current range of Yanmar engines - designed in 2000 (I think that makes the design 10 years old), all 3-cylinder and all good for 10,000 hours.
Marinising an engine is quite a complex business, many industrial engines, fall down in the quality of marinisation.
To answer the original poster - small runs and expensive components for marinisation, will be the answer to his original question (coupled with understandably greedy middlemen).
PS - I wouldn't rate the Reliant engines chances of surviving marine use!!!
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reginaldon
Well-Known Member
Took the words out of my mouth(keyboard)!
lenseman
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You ain't seen nothing yet! The prices are due to rise in the very near future and there is also a further 3p tax to add to that misery which starts on 1st April [Thank you Darling
].Expect some of the UK marina prices to rise to £1.35+ litre!
. . . . and 5 years ago I was looking at buying a twin engined boat with a range of 250-270 miles until I found out it drank a gallon a minute EACH ENGINE!!!
Bodach na mara
Well-Known Member
This was in reply to Planteater's comment that most of us are prepared to use petrol outboards.
Yes, but they are out in the open on the transom of our tenders. When not there, they are usually on the pushpit pad. Four things have caused me to question the safety of even these arrangements.
1. When I open up the after cabin, there is a smell of petrol. This is from the can of fuel lurking in a locker in there. It is not leaking by the way. It is just the diffusion of the petrol through the plastic of a proper plastic petrol container.
2. I found an almost new plastic petrol container in a skip. As I knew that even yachtsmen will not throw much out that is useable, I had a careful look and found the creased corner that was probably leaking.
3. I once lived with a leaky can. It was one of the old brass topped Shell type and I thought they were indestructible, and wasted a lot of time looking for the source of the smell. Eventually I found that the base was riddled with pin-holes.
4. One day when I went to the garden shed for logs, there was a smell of petrol. When I checked that the outboard fuel cock was off, the lever part came off in my hands and along with it came all the bits that stop the fuel from flowing unimpeded over the floor. Even the outboard may leak. I am glad that nobody in the house smokes.
I have had no success in getting a replacement fuel cock (covered in an earlier thread.) On reflection, as I actually use the outboard very little, I will maybe not repair it. The exercise of rowing will do no harm anyway.
duncanmack
Well-Known Member
Just come across this, WD, and have replied to the thread you mention.
lenseman
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Please can you explain exactly what is done when an engine is 'marinised'?
I genuinely cannot see a reason for the extreme costs involved and would love someone to explain exactly what is done?
David sits back and awaits replies . . . . . !
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Please can you explain exactly what is done when an engine is 'marinised'?
I genuinely cannot see a reason for the extreme costs involved and would love someone to explain exactly what is done?
David sits back and awaits replies . . . . . !
Two key items are cooling and the gearbox. Cooling is now mostly indirect so requires a heat exchanger and an additional pump. Also usually has a sump pump for oil changes. Other hardware on the engine is mounting brackets and flexible mounts plus further brackets for control gear. Also required usually is an FNR reduction gearbox and coupling to the prop shaft. Many engines have uprated alternators (mine has a 70 amp, compared with the 35 amp when the engine is used in a dump truck etc.) Electrics and cables are usually to a higher spec because of the expected damp operating conditions.
Given that arguably the majority of problems with marine engines are related to electrics and cooling, important that these are done properly.
Not sure why you use the adjective "extreme" - in comparison with what?
As I pointed out above many firms have tried to make a profitable business out of marine engines and most have failed, which suggests that their selling prices failed to cover their costs. So on that basis the engines could be described as extremely cheap!