Corniche 31 - Possibly buying and looking for some advice

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bowler

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Hi all,

I have agreed in principle to buy an 89 Corniche 31. The boat is in immaculate condition that has the TAM41As on shafts with around 1500hrs. I believe the boat is a good deal.

I am planning to water test it tomorrow and have a good look around the engines and boxes (MS4A I believe). I know they are a potential weak point.

Any tips on what to look for and what to expect regarding performance or any other specific red flags?

Apparently there is loads of paperwork with her and the fuel tanks have been replaced with SS. I plan to get a survey done after she is lifted out assuming all goes well tomorrow.

Thanks in advance,

Darren.
 
Have a close look at the cutlass bearings. Although doable DIY, it is THE worse job I have ever tackled on anything that floats, including 7 boats of my own, one type 22 Frigate and two Type 42 Destroyers !

Otherwise nice boat so go for it.

I do have an idjots guide to changing the cutlass bearings based upon my own personal expericences on a not dissimilar Turbo 36.
 
I’ve owned 2 over the years , carried out extensive work on one including new fuel tanks . Good value boats but getting on in years do have a survey and someone look over the engines with a sea trial , where is the boat located ?
 
Thanks for the tips folks. The boat is is Lough Erne in NI. On the off chance, anyone know a diesel marine specialist in NI or Ireland? Having no luck online but can find plenty of surveyors in the area.

D.
 
Well,

Just had the water test. A bit hairy getting out of the marina but was pleased with how maneuverable she was considering the wind. Cruised in around 3000rpm and WOT at around 3500 with full tanks. Went in and out of gear smoothly and initial smoking cleared up when up to temp. Loads of receipts going back to 1994 including the original bill of sale plus all bills of sale since. According to the receipts she has spend many off seasons on the hard and has had plenty of money and TLC spent on her over the years. He even has the original Fairline cutlery.

I have given a deposit and plan to get her out ASAP.

D.
 
bowler said:
Well,

Just had the water test. A bit hairy getting out of the marina but was pleased with how maneuverable she was considering the wind. Cruised in around 3000rpm and WOT at around 3500 with full tanks. Went in and out of gear smoothly and initial smoking cleared up when up to temp. Loads of receipts going back to 1994 including the original bill of sale plus all bills of sale since. According to the receipts she has spend many off seasons on the hard and has had plenty of money and TLC spent on her over the years. He even has the original Fairline cutlery.

I have given a deposit and plan to get her out ASAP.

D.
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Sounds good, congrats on the new boat :)
 
Hello all.

A quick update. I am a little anxious regarding an email I received yesterday. As part of my due diligence I emailed a boat mechanic/broker/hire company owner who had done work on her over a period of years up to 2015. He had showed us around some boats in the past so I thought it prudent to ask his opinion on her. I was taken back a little by the reply:

"I do know a little bit about this boat, but the owner who employed me to work on it, only got me in when he couldn't get it working himself. He did practically everything himself and I know that mechanically and electrically, that boat needs attention, that is if the current owner has not already sorted it all out. The current owner only just bought it at end of last season, so the fact that he is selling it on arouses my suspicions somewhat ???."

The current owner has had since last August and truth be told I thought he had it for a bit longer. He says he is selling as the family have shown no real interest in her. He is also the one who has gave her a bit of a make over/refit inside (he builds camper vans for a living). I emailed him yesterday and asked for a list of things he did over the winter but I am fairly sure there was nothing major beyond the interior based on what he said.

There are receipts for payments to another place totaling around £700/800 dated just before the point of sale to the current owner but they have no detail on what it was spent on. I think will contact them and see if they have any records on what was done but that amount of money doesn't go along way on a boat like this. I have also emailed the mechanic back and asked if he could clarify what he means by "mechanical and electrical attention". Like I said, she performed well yesterday and is immaculate but even though I have been around small craft for a long time I am no expert.

I would be very interested to hear what anyone thinks about this. I don't want to buy a lemon at 36.5k! Should I carry on and take her out for a survey or begin thinking about pulling out of the deal?

All opinions welcome.

D.
 
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This thread is rapidly becoming a textbook example of how not to buy a boat.

You say that you have paid a deposit, so presumably you have entered into a contract. Have you signed a contract ? What does that say about terminating the contract ?

Is this a broker sale or private, so to whom have you paid your deposit ?

What % of the agreed price did you pay ?

You mention due diligence, but without being rude to you this thread reads like someone who yesterday was wearing rose tinted specs, certainly all this does appear to have happened vary fast. From first requesting advice from this forum to placing your deposit was a matter of one night. Your report of the purchase was very positive - the boat went fast ! The due diligence period ended once money changed hands - at this point you have agreed to buy the boat, presumably though this is subject to survey, so you may be able to show grounds for termination, but not without some significant cost to you, and of course what the contract you have entered into says.

As you have entered into a contract of some form then you might find yourself obliged to complete.

However, if as you now elude there may be underlying undisclosed defects then any decent contract would allow you to terminate now without loss of your deposit, if you can show the vendor and / or his broker had knowledge of those, but the comments made by the prior mechanic are now 3 years out of date and are arguably hearsay. But then again this is a 29 year old boat so she won't be perfect, and it will be arguable you were aware of this when you made your offer and paid your deposit.

I do hope all ends up well for you, so please find yourself decent a surveyor and engineer.
 
Hello superheat,

I appreciate the reply and I don't take offense.

There has been no contract signed and the deposit I paid was 2K, given in good faith and although not peanuts, not a life changing amount of money. The sale is private. This is indeed my first purchase of a boat of this size and value and may well be a learning experience but I have bought and sold several boats in the past.

I had already been to see the boat a week ago but the weather didn't permit a water test. We agreed to meet a week later for that purpose. I thought I would reach out via this forum the night before just out of curiosity.

However, I didn't say the boat went fast - I said it performed well. I have also discovered over time that boats that look like they have been taken care of tend to be taken care of. I also said I am not an expert and I have not worked on Frigates or Destroyers, hence the survey. I am not wearing rose tinted spectacles, I was simply pleased with the water test and history provided. Both important when buying a used boat, no? After the water test I had another look around the boat. Everything worked and appeared in order. I had a look around the engines and gear boxes with limited access. I could not find any visible leaks, but again, I am no expert. The seller gave me a folder full of receipts etc which I was pleased to see. I went home and read through them. I recognised the name of one of the mechanics and emailed him out of curiosity. I thought I would share all this. Perhaps I shouldn't have but would have done the same on several other boating forums I belong to. I like to hear the opinions of others who are more knowledgeable than I. This case is no different.

I am going to go ahead as planned. I have several surveyors who are happy to look at the boat. I lined them up over a week ago. As stated, I am struggling to find an engineer to go over the engines but I have sent a few emails last week but no replies yet. Perhaps the survey will show major defects that I cannot see and I'll walk away. If the seller wont return the deposit based on that then that's my bad for not having a contract - perhaps lesson learned, but I have all the history of the boat in my possession and I thought that a fair trade for the deposit in the time being. Perhaps he will pursue me for the rest of the money though without a contract I don't think that is likely.

All further comments welcome!

D.
 
Hi, I own a corniche and worked on a few others so I would say I know them pretty well. Maybe share a link to the boat so others can see it and give a better opinion on the boat.
Anything questions just give me a pm
 
bowler said:
Hello superheat,

I appreciate the reply and I don't take offense.

There has been no contract signed and the deposit I paid was 2K, given in good faith and although not peanuts, not a life changing amount of money. The sale is private. This is indeed my first purchase of a boat of this size and value and may well be a learning experience but I have bought and sold several boats in the past.

I had already been to see the boat a week ago but the weather didn't permit a water test. We agreed to meet a week later for that purpose. I thought I would reach out via this forum the night before just out of curiosity.

However, I didn't say the boat went fast - I said it performed well. I have also discovered over time that boats that look like they have been taken care of tend to be taken care of. I also said I am not an expert and I have not worked on Frigates or Destroyers, hence the survey. I am not wearing rose tinted spectacles, I was simply pleased with the water test and history provided. Both important when buying a used boat, no? After the water test I had another look around the boat. Everything worked and appeared in order. I had a look around the engines and gear boxes with limited access. I could not find any visible leaks, but again, I am no expert. The seller gave me a folder full of receipts etc which I was pleased to see. I went home and read through them. I recognised the name of one of the mechanics and emailed him out of curiosity. I thought I would share all this. Perhaps I shouldn't have but would have done the same on several other boating forums I belong to. I like to hear the opinions of others who are more knowledgeable than I. This case is no different.

I am going to go ahead as planned. I have several surveyors who are happy to look at the boat. I lined them up over a week ago. As stated, I am struggling to find an engineer to go over the engines but I have sent a few emails last week but no replies yet. Perhaps the survey will show major defects that I cannot see and I'll walk away. If the seller wont return the deposit based on that then that's my bad for not having a contract - perhaps lesson learned, but I have all the history of the boat in my possession and I thought that a fair trade for the deposit in the time being. Perhaps he will pursue me for the rest of the money though without a contract I don't think that is likely.

All further comments welcome!

D.
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In the absence of anything else I would suggest you invite (require) the vendor to sign up to this. You still have the upper hand here as he will want the rest of your cash to complete the purchase. A bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush when it comes to selling a boat.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/96tiv2nkr...E AND PURCHASE OF A SECOND HAND BOAT.pdf?dl=0
 
Good shout.

That agreement mentions England, Wales and Scotland. You think it would be OK for NI? We are funny over here sometimes when it comes to legal things.

If so I will send it on to him and get it all above board.

D.
 
bowler said:
Good shout.

That agreement mentions England, Wales and Scotland. You think it would be OK for NI? We are funny over here sometimes when it comes to legal things.

If so I will send it on to him and get it all above board.

D.
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I am not a lawyer, but a contract is a contract. Having a sound basis means if things do go awry that ultimately a Judge would have to examine the contract. and then decide. Thus just because it doesn't mention NI should not mean the terms within are not reasonable and fair wherever in the UK or even EU you might be.
 
I think that the idea of a contract is a good one (although whether you can instigate it halfway through the purchase is another matter).

It looks good in the photos of the listing, although obviously that's cosmetics. Slightly weird that there's seven photos of the hull and outside, and three of the interior, but you've seen it so not an issue.

Mechanically they're pretty simple and if it's doing its correct speed and revs without blowing smoke or overheating or whatever then that's a fairly good indication and a good start.

A good surveyor and engineer should be able to put your mind at rest (or otherwise). To be honest, with a boat of this age if you dig long enough and hard enough and talk to enough people then you'll find something or someone to put you off. It's all about getting as much valid information as possible and taking a balanced view. Bear in mind it is an old boat (but Fairline Corniches are pretty solid simple things).

Get it inspected thoroughly, keep in mind it's an old boat, and use common sense. But I wouldn't panic over much just yet...
 
superheat6k said:
I am not a lawyer, but a contract is a contract. Having a sound basis means if things do go awry that ultimately a Judge would have to examine the contract. and then decide. Thus just because it doesn't mention NI should not mean the terms within are not reasonable and fair wherever in the UK or even EU you might be.
Click to expand...

The EU has nothing to do with sales contracts for boats. I think the OP might be better off asking people who know about the law in Northern Ireland as it relates to boat purchases, rather than relying on this kind of random advice.

If I was spending over £30K on something, I wouldn't think twice about spending £100 on asking my solicitor how I should go about it if I had any doubts.
 
Grubble said:
The EU has nothing to do with sales contracts for boats. I think the OP might be better off asking people who know about the law in Northern Ireland as it relates to boat purchases, rather than relying on this kind of random advice.

If I was spending over £30K on something, I wouldn't think twice about spending £100 on asking my solicitor how I should go about it if I had any doubts.
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I hardly think the RYA standard contract is 'Random' advice, and NI remains part of the UK, so its laws will not be that different to England, Scotland and Wales. In this case the OP has already paid a deposit without a contract, so needs to act fast to get something in place.
 
Well, in the interest of a follow up...

I am on board said vessel, having a few beers and surfing ybw and I found this old thread.

I ended up going ahead with the purchase and have been enjoying the boat since. As expected, a 30 year old boat can throw up some issues but thankfully nothing major.

I ended up having an engine survey, in reality more a 'look over' by the only marine diesel mechanic I could find in all of NI (not cheap), and he was full of praise regarding the engines and thier condition. A regular survey of hull and systems was also full of praise so in my mind money well spent.

Big shout to superheat who points out the need for careful consideration and legalities in this kind of deal. Kind of like summit fever approaching everst! Easy to get carried away.

The seperate surveys of hull and mechanicals gave me the confidence to buy and that was enough. At least you know you did all you could regardless of the quality of either...

Replacing ALL filters and fluids, touching up small spots of corrosion on the engines, renewing any old j clips with new stainless (amongst other trivial jobs) and crawling over every inch of her personally since has provided additional pleasure and increased confidence.

Happy boating.

D.
 
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Thanks for taking time to come back with a progress report.
Suspect a fair proportion of prospective boat owners have found themselves in exactly your position regards that leap into the dark with a boat purchase.
Fun to be had discovering all those unwelcome little things that surface after purchasing your "preloved" boat.
No matter how experience you buy with pre purchase surveys etc , something usually turns up unexpectedly involving unplanned extra expence.
 
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